International politics - BOATY!

[tcm]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

Not sure of relevance of belgium being a republic or a monarchy. I was simply responding to a silly commentator in a restaurant, advising (muich to the embarassment of his wife, I should add) that dubya is not at all the same as Hitler. I certainly can't imagine that all Belgians think the same. Or can I? Your analysis of ww2 is defective, and uk resistance to attempted invasion from june 1940 to end 1941 provided a base for invasion, which was only 50% US troops, despite the films. Belgium is lucky rather than plucky to exist, entirely dependent upon the actions of others. Perhaps your plea for a free tow to Genoa carries forward this magnificent tradition. I have hundred of friends abroad, but the guy in restaurant wasn't looking for any.

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

Not just abroad, you have hundreds of friends here. I think the man in Antibes was a wind up. A Belgian would have to cross all of France and have everyone laughing at his accent, his way of counting, his funny cut bread, his funny country before he got to Antibes. Seems to me it's very unlikely there are any real Belgians in Antibes.

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[kingfisher]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

1) Aside from the sharp analysis made in the resignation speech of Robin Cook, I cannot help but wondering that if all the effort an money that was spent on the war, was spent on keeping the inspectors in Irak for the next thirty years, it would also permanently prevent Sadam to develop WMD's. I agree that there should be a stick behind the door, so a genuine military back up of the inspectors is correct. But not even bothering to show up for the presentation of the Blix's report, clarifies that a UN mandate is subsidiary to Dubya's own agenda.

Inspectors will not gain you access to oil, or help you hide the fact that you botched up the economy of your country and are draging that of the world down with yours, or help you restore political support.

2) Why is TB so hell bent on supporting the attack, against the will of the UK public, against the will of members of his own party and cabinet? What obligations does he have to meet towards the US? Or does he know more than the rest of Europe ?

3) Dubya is stirring the hornets' nest and is already expecting the UN to do the cleaning up (the peace-keeping) afterwards. You sow the wind, you reap the storm.

4) I am forever in debt to the men and women who helped liberate my country: Brits, US, Canadians, Poles, and Belgians. But this is personal, and this credit is not passed over to subsequent governements, so the fact that we should be thankfull to the allies, does not require me to join or approve of a pointless war. That would make the US indebted to the french for helping them become independent from their red coat oppressors

5) It's not a free tow, we've got a budget, allbeit very limited. And it's not for me, it's to give a few kids the opportunnity to meet other kids from the UK, IRL, USA, RUS, FR and IT, in the hope that current events can be avoided in the future.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[PerL]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

I have to agree with you, Kingfisher.

Don't really know what the Belgians did to receive so many unfriendly words. When it comes to Belgian military history, let's not forget that Belgium was created by the superpowers of the time as a buffer zone on what has for the last centuries been the European highway of war. Being a small flat state between France and Germany really gives you no other option than to lie down and pretend to be a speedbump when the tanks comes rolling past. Can anyone credibly say that say, Hertforshire would fare any better if not safely tucked away on a little island.

Speaking of invasions, back in the days when sailingboats was the favoured means of transportation, invading England was something of a favourite pasttime of vikings and other odd people. (See, thats how you make these threads boaty!)

As a question for anyone in one of the aggressive countries, does anyone actually know why Saddam has to be beat up right now? He obviously doesn't have a strong army, he obviously doesn't cooperate with terrorists (at least not with Al-Q.) and there's plenty of oil to go around (and even if it wasn't that'd just show the advantages of sailingboats). Sure, he's not too nice to his own people, but that hasn't been an issue before. Is it a "father-to-son" thing? And if so, where does Tony B get into it?



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[tcm]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

I don't really disagree with any of this. But I disagreed (and still do) with the idea that dubya is at all comparable to Hitler, hence my contretemps with the chap in antibes. I was wrong to hurl a personal jibe at you re your genoa project. I'm sorry.


re iraq...I am uneasy about the way in which "public opinion" is being quoted which is subject to the interviewer, the question, and so on. Media is often mocking New Labour as a slave to public opinion. Now, they have a problem cos the govt is not responding to public opinion. or so they say. The UK government has no official mechanism to respond to or "take into account" the public opinion, except at a secret ballot once every general election. I would imagine that public opinion would always support the easiest or least problematic option. Public opinion is often in favour of the imposssible, like low taxes and lots of public spending. A difficult aspect of the situation in iraq is the continual use of the word "war". Public opinion is unlikely to ever approve or encourage "war", synonymous with hardship and death on a large scale.

Having inspectors isn't a permanent solution. It's a stopgap. It might work for years, or 30 years as you say. You quoted the oppression of empire, and continual ongoing inspection in iraq would eventually become "oppression". For as long as there inspectors in iraq, the middle east would always be fluid, waiting until the US inspectors departed. At some point, there'd be another "end game" to eject the inspectors or following the departure of the inspectors. As soon as they leave, iraq can re-arm, and after the humiliation of years of inspection, it would be more likely to want to do so.

US/UK have decided to take action now. It's a valid government decision. Nobody seems to deny that wouldn't be a conflict further along the line anyway, in 10 or 30 years. At relatively low cost, the situation can be changed radically. People will die as a result, although people will die if nothing is done. But the result is highly likely to be decisive and positive, not negative, on balance. The carry-on-as-before policy with lots of inspectors is not decisive, and could over time win iraq lots more friends - at which point it would be too late to take military action.

imho.



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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

PerL, the answer to your last question lies underground. For a blueprint to this war read:

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/cheney.html is a useful primer.

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[Roberto]

I live in France; I usually have a few visiting UK and US friends, having dinner altogether with French people, you guess the main discussion subject between one bottle of wine and the following...
The impression I have, on average, is that of at least two big breakups. Between governments, and between governments and the more or less vast majority of their own people.
No wonder another breakup follows, between one nation people and the government of another nation.

If one government is unfortunately called W Bush, this surely makes things worse (I am sure if the same war had been declared by Clinton worldwide support would have been much higher, or opposition lower).

In recent days I found a surprisingly fast growing number of points in common between people from different nationalities, like it or not, especially face to the events we are living these weeks.

If behind your Magic_Sailor is not hidden a M.Bush, M.Blair or M.Saddam you can have a safest trip to France, possibly make more friends than in older times (if you wish so of course!)

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[tcm]

Re: Agreed, Roberto!

And indeed, when the seagull follows the trawler, it is because he wants a sardine! Either that, or perhaps he wants to crap on the boat?

 

[PerL]

Re: Since when is Belgium a republic?

Aha! It is hidden so deep underground that the paper you referred to doesn't seem to be available.

Now that the killing has begun, I just hope that it is swiftly over even though that would benefit those who initiated it. I will meanwhile hide out in the Swedish mountains, skiing and dogsleighing (sp?) and what not until all the evil people from all sides disappears from my TV.

/Per

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