International Certificate of Competance

LadyInBed

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….. but that just applies inland waterways….right?
Yes, but. . . .
Though I wonder at what point inland waterways kick-in? Presumably a trip to Honfleur woudn‘t necessitate a CEVNI…..or would it?
There isn't a kick-in point as such. CEVNI is required in France for waterways controlled by VNF, so you can go up the Rance (to Dinan with mast up) and the Vilaine as they aren't VNF waterway's and the Seine to Rouen (well worth the trip) as it is a navigable shipping river. Past Rouen it is VNF controlled, they have a big office there where you buy your Licence (Vignette).
 

vyv_cox

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I have spent 12 years boating in France and Spain and never been asked for any proof of competence (ICC or anything else).
I have never been asked for proof of VAT either. I have been just once asked for my passport by some patrolling customs officers wandering through the marina we were visiting for a day or two.
Our boat has been based in Europe with only rare visits to UK since 1997. Requests to show paperwork have been rare but have been made in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy and Greece. The most thorough was in Belgium, where even my VHF licence was inspected.
In the Netherlands we were fined for going the wrong way through a bridge. The mast was down in winter and we went under a bridge that opens in summer only, no red light. Every document we had was needed then. As ever, if something goes wrong you will be glad you bothered to collect your paperwork.
 

greeny

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As ever, if something goes wrong you will be glad you bothered to collect your paperwork.
In 30 + years sailing in UK and other European countries I have been asked specifically for my "license" twice in Portugal and nowhere else although I have been stopped in other countries for spot checks on boat papers. On those two occasions they stopped me for spot checks on the boat. I did nothing wrong I think they were just bored and they used me as an opportunity for an "exercise" for the lower ranked crew on the ship. I say this because they were in constant contact with mother ship throughout the inspections and were obviously being coached in what to do and ask for. They were not interested in Yachtmaster cert, ICC was what they wanted along with other ships docs. They also inspected all safety gear to ensure it was in date. They left disappointed not to find anything I think. :) No idea what they would have done if I could not produce ICC. Possibly nothing because lots of expats sailing down here without ICC's or licenses but maybe they've just not been inspected yet.
As Vyv says, it's when things go wrong out here that paperwork is important and you can't be certain that will never happen.
 

PlanB

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I was once boarded in France and they asked for absolutely everything (PP, ICC, ins cert, proof of VAT, Part 1 - ad nauseam), and radioed the details in to somewhere. There were so many bods I think it must have been a training exercise, apart from anything else.
After that, since I follow the law of sod, I made sure always to have the lot.
 

vyv_cox

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I was once boarded in France and they asked for absolutely everything (PP, ICC, ins cert, proof of VAT, Part 1 - ad nauseam), and radioed the details in to somewhere. There were so many bods I think it must have been a training exercise, apart from anything else.
After that, since I follow the law of sod, I made sure always to have the lot.
Was that Calais by any chance? We were boarded from a rib while on a buoy waiting for the bridge. The mother ship was a launch tied to the quay. They brought a film crew with them: total pantomime that I wrote up for YM.
 

Graham376

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In 30 + years sailing in UK and other European countries I have been asked specifically for my "license" twice in Portugal and nowhere else although I have been stopped in other countries for spot checks on boat papers. On those two occasions they stopped me for spot checks on the boat. I did nothing wrong I think they were just bored and they used me as an opportunity for an "exercise" for the lower ranked crew on the ship.

How long ago was this? About 15-16 years ago, they regularly stopped foreign boats and required safety equipment and qualifications to the standards for locally registered boats. After the RYA intervened, they agreed it would only apply to boats in their waters >6 months, not to those passing through. In 20+ years, I've only had to produce passport, insurance and registration in France, Spain and Portugal. According to this, those countries didn't sign up to Resolution 40 for the ICC anyway - ICC Resolution No. 40 | UNECE
 

Tranona

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In many countries, qualifications are required of their citizens for the operation of pleasure craft. In these countries they accept the national qualifications of visiting skippers, as is international custom. However, as no official qualifications are required of skippers in UK or Ireland, no qualifications are required of these skippers when they visit other countries
That is very misleading. While normally states respect other flag state rules for visitors under the principle of comity, they always have the right to apply their own rule while you are within their territorial waters (Graham 376 gives a good example). It is also common for states to require skippers qualifications to use a boat under their flag, for example if chartering. The ICC is generally accepted for this. The real problems arise if you fall foul of local maritime law, for example if you are involved in an incident that causes damage or requires a call to the coastguard. In situations like this you will be glad of your ICC as it avoid questions about your competence. You may well however find your boat put under the authority's control and be subject to a survey before release.

As many here have reported random checks are rare and are mostly ask just for passports and registration, but this does not mean that states do not retain the right to impose more on visitors in territorial waters.
 

Spirit (of Glenans)

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That is very misleading. While normally states respect other flag state rules for visitors under the principle of comity, they always have the right to apply their own rule while you are within their territorial waters (Graham 376 gives a good example). It is also common for states to require skippers qualifications to use a boat under their flag, for example if chartering. The ICC is generally accepted for this. The real problems arise if you fall foul of local maritime law, for example if you are involved in an incident that causes damage or requires a call to the coastguard. In situations like this you will be glad of your ICC as it avoid questions about your competence. You may well however find your boat put under the authority's control and be subject to a survey before release.

As many here have reported random checks are rare and are mostly ask just for passports and registration, but this does not mean that states do not retain the right to impose more on visitors in territorial waters.
I should, of course have prefaced my remarks by saying that they applied to skippers in command of their own boats. Charter companies usually require some form of qualification, either ICC or Day Skipper, with the proviso that no night sailing is undertaken.
 

AngusMcDoon

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That is very misleading. While normally states respect other flag state rules for visitors under the principle of comity, they always have the right to apply their own rule while you are within their territorial waters (Graham 376 gives a good example). It is also common for states to require skippers qualifications to use a boat under their flag, for example if chartering. The ICC is generally accepted for this. The real problems arise if you fall foul of local maritime law, for example if you are involved in an incident that causes damage or requires a call to the coastguard. In situations like this you will be glad of your ICC as it avoid questions about your competence. You may well however find your boat put under the authority's control and be subject to a survey before release.

As many here have reported random checks are rare and are mostly ask just for passports and registration, but this does not mean that states do not retain the right to impose more on visitors in territorial waters.

Exactly that happened to me. A yacht on passage from Turkey to Malta had engine problems and requested a tow into Xania on Crete. Paperwork hell broke out at that point. The boat was impounded and required a survey before it was released. This took so long that the crew had to leave and I flew out as replacement. Before departure they wanted to see the skipper's qualifications. His yachtmaster wasn't accepted, but I had an ICC. I hadn't taken it with me as I wasn't expected to be skipper, so another few days delay as that was couriered out to me from the UK.

Most of the time there are no checks, but when something happens, then they seem to want to inspect everything including the CE mark on the bogroll. The most annoying part was that they didn't tell us everything at the beginning, but waited until the previous requirement was met before springing the next one on us.
 

Daydream believer

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I am being given contradictory advice as to whether an ICC is needed for a sailing trip France. Is strictly required or not or just recommended?
I was asked for it-- in Boulogne. I have been many times & that is the only time. But i seem to attract customs visits,(14 on one cruise with my wife, to Biscay, alone). The officer was probably just being a bit awkward. However, if I had not had it, I am not sure of the outcome.
I would certainly not go without it
 

Daydream believer

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I have spent 12 years boating in France and Spain and never been asked for any proof of competence (ICC or anything else).
I have never been asked for proof of VAT either. I have been just once asked for my passport by some patrolling customs officers wandering through the marina we were visiting for a day or two.
I often get asked for my passport in France ( & Belgium) & they have sometimes phoned to some point, with the details before handing it back to me. A couple of times on my last visits, it has been photographed when in Boulogne.
When our club did the "D" day cruise to Normandy, 3 yachts were motoring back to Eastbourne, from Le Havre (as no wind). A French patrol boat boarded them in turn & examined their passports & documents.
 

Tranona

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Spain accepts the ICC for UK nationals as part of Spanish law, it doesn't have to be a signatory to accept it. France and Portugal might be the same.

See BOE-A-2021-8268.
signing up and accepting are 2 different things. The first is to issue the certificate to the state's citizens or residenrs, the second is to accept it to meet requirements for operating a boat.
 

syfuga

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I have never been asked for an ICC. Some time ago, I think the Greek Port Police would ask you for some proof of competence. As I have no paperwork other than the VHF and LRC radio certificates, I was asked to fill out a form with my father's and mother's names self certifying that I was competent. As I had found my way there from the UK that was a reasonable assumption to make.
 
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