Interior rust

[n00b_boater]

(apologies to mods if this is in the wrong place)

Hello

This is my first post. After years of dreaming, I have finally been able to buy myself a 66ft Springer.

She's completely empty inside, being a project boat. She has some loose planks for a floor, so I am going to put flooring in.

My question is about rust though. I tried searching, but can't find anything. In the bottom of the boat (keel/inside), where the ballast lies, the former owner started putting new rust treatment in. But it is only a small part of the whole boat.

How necessary is this? There's a LOT to do on her before I move in. I spent my day scraping and brushing up the rust "dust". The rust is all bone dry, really more like years of dust. But do I REALLY need to scrape and paint the inside of the hull?

Will it really eat up my boat? How critical is this?

*I realise this is a dumb question and I should know more - but this is my first boat, on a shoestring budget, so please try not be too harsh*

 

[byron]

You are sort of in the wrong place for this. Having said that there's some very knowledgeable chappies here (don't tell them I said so) who may well come up with the answer. You may also wish to pose your question in the Practical Boat Owner Forum.
I am a Moderator and I see no reason to interfere with a genuine post.

 

[No Regrets]

Rust will keep chomping away as moisture arrives, which it will due to changing temperatures and general usage, even with no leaks.

Really, on the basis you appear not to have had a survey, you need to remove the rust and seal whats left with some form of paint to slow down any further rust by removing oxygen.

It's worth checking hull thickness if you're worried (And I would be with a steel hull!!)

 

[Flynnbarr]

Welcome,not trying to get rid of you .....but you would be better off asking for help on the canal forums.
My understanding is that springers were not that heavily built so anything you can do in the way of rust prevention would be a good thing.
Good luck with your project.

 

[banger]

I seem to remember that Springers were built with 5mm steel, all narrowboats now have minimum of 10mm so your boat has not much steel to lose before problems, so yes, rust prevention is very important.

 

[TrueBlue]

Welcome,not trying to get rid of you .....but you would be better off asking for help on the canal forums.
My understanding is that springers were not that heavily built so anything you can do in the way of rust prevention would be a good thing.
Good luck with your project.

Echo that - try:-
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/

Better still - if you can - do some research on the forums before asking a question, so many folks just ask a question before looking - and that approach doesn't get the best result.
There's lots of help there and some great members who spend a lot of time helping new folks.

Bear in mind that Sam Springer made his boats out of ex-WD fuel tanks (so the steel might have been of good quality - but it's very thin by today's standards....

 

[bumperdump]

Welcome,not trying to get rid of you .....but you would be better off asking for help on the canal forums.
My understanding is that springers were not that heavily built so anything you can do in the way of rust prevention would be a good thing.
Good luck with your project.

As said
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25211

 

[Medskipper]

My brother had a steel yacht. He discovered rust inside the hull and had to strip out everything. Then rubbed down removing rust and then completely painted the inside with several coats of red oxide paint before installing all fixtures and fittings again. Hell of a job and swore never to own a steel boat again!
I once saw a steel cruiser lifted and lowered onto blocks for hard standing. The blocks just kept on pushing up through the rotten rusted hull! Hell of a mess and I assume a big insurance claim!

 

[oldgit]

Steel boats corrode both externally and internally.My father has just called it a day on a small tug type boat which been plated more than a few times.
It was built out of very thin steel and designed to last for a particular life span after which it would obviously be scrapped.
After being worked for probably 3 times its design life ,including being re -engined,the internal rot was the final death nell.
Would do as much as you possibly can while boat is bare shell,after you fit out you will enclose stuff that will probably never see daylight again.
My first concern would be that the hull is not kept together by the last coat of paint it got.Get somebody to check it or you go over it (not joking,with hammer) especially along the water line,before you spend a farthing more on it.
Good Luck.

 

[rotrax]

I seem to remember that Springers were built with 5mm steel, all narrowboats now have minimum of 10mm so your boat has not much steel to lose before problems, so yes, rust prevention is very important.

Very few narrow boats have 10mm thick hulls. This thickness can be specified, as can certified plate. Many have 8mm bottoms, 6mm sides and 3 or 4 mm tops.

To the OP- clear out all the loose rust, paint with a chemical like phosphoric acid, let it dry and cover with bitumastic paint.

To do it properly it will need blasting to remove all the rust-and the blast medium-and the refinishing. If you are on a buget, try my method, it has saved a boat in a similar situation.

 

[TrueBlue]

If the OP is still watching -
One of the problems with a Springer is that they had a wet bilge running the whole length of the boat. Drains from the front deck ran into the bilge which could never be completely pumped out.
That point ought to be checked and extra precautions taken.
I'd prefer to use Comastic instead of bitumastic on top of some good inhibitor.

 

[Viking23]

Steel rusts, GRP de-laminates and wood rots! Take your pick! Good luck!!

 

[sarabande]

would it be worth, if the boat is empty, getting a technical survey done ? Couple of hundred squids for a canal boat engineer and hammer and a couple of hours work, to stop heartache and leakage of additional funds? Perhaps a canal boat forum knows of a well-respected owner who could give you a view.

Use the community.

 

[oldgit]

Steel rusts, GRP de-laminates and wood rots! Take your pick! Good luck!!

H,mm.
If you look around the shores of any river or estuary you will find excellent examples what happens to both steel and wood if you just leave them to their own devices.
However both glassfibre and concrete have proved to be considerably more resilient to the elements.
Disposing of glassfibre is going to be real problem in the future,assuming that grinding and burning is going to be the only solution...and somebody is going to have to pay for it....perhaps loading the cost of disposal on the first owner.

 

[Wavey]

Given the lightweight build of Springers, and the fact that the last built are now some 24 years old, a hull survey is really a must.

 

[Viking23]

Yes, surveys are a good plan. My grp boat was bought without one, but I have found de-lamination around the hatch area since. Although not really structural, it's disconcerting when the deck bends when you walk on the bow! I suppose par for the course on a older boat! I've injected some marine epoxy in there temporarily; hope that will keep things at bay for a while! Of course, the famous adage for any boat owner is B.O.A.T aka Bring Out Another Thousand (£)! But I still love boating!

 

[Momac]

The blocks just kept on pushing up through the rotten rusted hull! Hell of a mess and I assume a big insurance claim!

Insurance? Surely corrosion is excluded?

 

[ChrisHanley]

To the n00b boater,
Congratulations on purchasing your first vessel, I really hope it provides you with years of enjoyment. As one who lives on a steel boat which built in 98 is considerably older than your Springer, I can sympathise with your concerns over internal rust. The earlier comments about Springer vessels are all true, they were built to a budget with steel which was thinner than any contemporary narrow boat builder would consider. So preserving the hull, both on the outside and the inside is important.
If you have dry powdery rust, that is good news as it is not active. However, as someone pointed out, as soon as it gets wet the corrosion will start again. Bilges do sometimes get wet and if there are floorboards above with poor ventilation they can remain damp for many months of the year. It is therefore imperative that the precious steel is protected.

Remove as much rust as possible using a scraper or a wire brush on an angle-grinder and sweep/vacuum the resultant dust. It is a very dirty job and use a breathing mask along with other personal protection, (otherwise you will have rusty bogies for several days).
Having removed all that you can, use a product called Vactan. It is expensive, but it is brilliant. Vactan is a rust-converter and a paint primer all in one. It has the consistency and colour of milk, but it dries a purply black colour depending on if it is clean steel or rusty steel. It can be brush applied, but a 4" roller is probably best for a larger area. Once it is dry - about an hour, any normal paint system can be applied. I emptied a shelf of old paint tins and now my bilge is a riot of colour with bands of paint representing the various boats I have owned each separated by the frames of the hull. Other paint systems can be used, including bitumen if you have no alternative.
Ever yours,
Chris