Insurance settlement and discharge.

[PhillM]

Take the insured value and walk away. THEN, once you have the money, you might choose to offer to take the boat off their hands, or not. But don't conflate the two parts of this negotiation. They ,may agree or they may not. But either way, you recoup your investment and can move on.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Take the insured value and walk away. THEN, once you have the money, you might choose to offer to take the boat off their hands, or not. But don't conflate the two parts of this negotiation. They ,may agree or they may not. But either way, you recoup your investment and can move on.

They are trying to apply 'Law of Average' (nowhere in agreement) and have offered 12.5K.

I am fine to take the insured full value and let them have at the vessel, but suspect they will not agree.

 

[Tranona]

They are trying to apply 'Law of Average' (nowhere in agreement) and have offered 12.5K.

I am fine to take the insured full value and let them have at the vessel, but suspect they will not agree.

Who is the insurer and what jurisdiction is the contract under?

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Who is the insurer and what jurisdiction is the contract under?

Prefer not to mention name at present.

However it would be under UK law and precedence.

 

[Bobc]

If your policy is agreed value, and they have declared the boat a constructed loss, then tell them you want the agreed value and that they can dispose of the boat. They are just trying to get away with offering you less. Stand your ground and say you want the full insured value.

Then after you've settled, offer to take the salvage off them for free, so they don't have the cost of disposing of it.

 

[Sandyshore]

Without the policy details to make comment like looking for a needle in a haystack.
If agreed value then loss adjuster would say so more like a market value policy with an average clause as well.
If the case with respect why purchased in first place.
I would chuck the whole file at Ombudsman to sort out.

 

[Tranona]

Without the policy details to make comment like looking for a needle in a haystack.
If agreed value then loss adjuster would say so more like a market value policy with an average clause as well.
If the case with respect why purchased in first place.
I would chuck the whole file at Ombudsman to sort out.

Suggest you read post#4. No needles or haystacks involved.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

If your policy is agreed value, and they have declared the boat a constructed loss, then tell them you want the agreed value and that they can dispose of the boat. They are just trying to get away with offering you less. Stand your ground and say you want the full insured value.

Then after you've settled, offer to take the salvage off them for free, so they don't have the cost of disposing of it.

Interesting.

Vessel insured for stated value 25K.

Insurance's Marine Surveyor states vessel in current condition is worth $30K.

So may very well write them and request the full $25K payment of construction loss, and point out that they can apparently sell the vessel 'as is' for the 30k and get all the money back AND a 5k profit.

 

[ylop]

Prefer not to mention name at present.

However it would be under UK law and precedence.

No such thing! Presumably you mean English law although if you live in Scotland (or NI) you may have option to use Scots Law regardless what the words on paper say.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

No such thing! Presumably you mean English law although if you live in Scotland (or NI) you may have option to use Scots Law regardless what the words on paper say.

OK replace UK with English

 

[benjenbav]

Interesting.

Vessel insured for stated value 25K.

Insurance's Marine Surveyor states vessel in current condition is worth $30K.

So may very well write them and request the full $25K payment of construction loss, and point out that they can apparently sell the vessel 'as is' for the 30k and get all the money back AND a 5k profit.

I would expect the policy to have an averaging clause saying something like, ‘if the cost of repair exceeds the sum insured the payout will be a proportion of the sum insured.’ Might be in the definition of “constructive total loss” as referenced in post #4.

Suspect you might do well to get (25/48) * 30k rather than the (25/48) * 25k which I think they’re offering, but maybe you’ll do better. Good luck.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

I would expect the policy to have an averaging clause saying something like, ‘if the cost of repair exceeds the sum insured the payout will be a proportion of the sum insured.’ Might be in the definition of “constructive total loss” as referenced in post #4.

Suspect you might do well to get (25/48) * 30k rather than the (25/48) * 25k which I think they’re offering, but maybe you’ll do better. Good luck.

One tiny point is that the value of the vessel is no way near what the Surveyor says. There are no vessels advertised at the 60k, most at best (with a trailer) are in the 30k area.

 

[ylop]

One tiny point is that the value of the vessel is no way near what the Surveyor says. There are no vessels advertised at the 60k, most at best (with a trailer) are in the 30k area.

is the surveyor saying it IS worth 30k in its current damaged state or it WAS worth 30k before the damage or WOULD BE worth 30k after the repair?

 

[Rum_Pirate]

is the surveyor saying it IS worth 30k in its current damaged state or it WAS worth 30k before the damage or WOULD BE worth 30k after the repair?

The Insurer's Marine Surveyor says it is worth 30k in it's current damaged state. (I have requested substantiation of this figure.)

The Insurer's Marine Surveyor said it was worth 60k in undamaged state. (I have requested substantiation of this figure.)

The Insurer's Marine Surveyor says the cost of damage is 30K. (I have requested substantiation/buildup of this figure.)

 

[ylop]

The Insurer's Marine Surveyor says it is worth 30k in it's current damaged state. (I have requested substantiation of this figure.)

Tell him you accept his offer!

 

[benjenbav]

If you go back to post #1 perhaps there’s some mileage in your stripping out some items from the claim (eg shipping costs for mast, new jib, etc) in order to bring it down to below both the insured value and the insurance surveyor’s valuation. Then you would be outside of the concept of constructive total loss and they might well cover the rest of it. I’m sure they’d want you to sign a waiver of any claim you might otherwise have, but it could be a route to get most of the cost of fixing the boat.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

If you go back to post #1 perhaps there’s some mileage in your stripping out some items from the claim (eg shipping costs for mast, new jib, etc) in order to bring it down to below both the insured value and the insurance surveyor’s valuation. Then you would be outside of the concept of constructive total loss and they might well cover the rest of it. I’m sure they’d want you to sign a waiver of any claim you might otherwise have, but it could be a route to get most of the cost of fixing the boat.

It might be possible to withdraw and resubmit the claim as per the OP namely :

New Mast (cannot be spliced) 15.4K (includes Boatyards input)
New mainsail - repair half a dozen tears and live with repaired reduced life sail 1K
New standing rigging 1.25K
New roller furling 2.75K
New jib (I have a brand new unused one) 0K
Repairs to coach roof and hulls 0.5K
Total 20.9K (i.e. Claim would be LESS than insured figure) with me doing the labour.


However they have upped their offer today to 17.25K today.

 

[Bobc]

It might be possible to withdraw and resubmit the claim as per the OP namely :

New Mast (cannot be spliced) 15.4K (includes Boatyards input)
New mainsail - repair half a dozen tears and live with repaired reduced life sail 1K
New standing rigging 1.25K
New roller furling 2.75K
New jib (I have a brand new unused one) 0K
Repairs to coach roof and hulls 0.5K
Total 20.9K (i.e. Claim would be LESS than insured figure) with me doing the labour.


However they have upped their offer today to 17.25K today.

Go back with that suggestion and tell them you'll settle for 21k.

 

[oldharry]

Re the initial offer figure, does Marine Insurance not work like Car Insurance? My car was written off after some prat drove into at speed while it was parked roadside. Insurance Company offered me a ridiculously low sum. I rejected it, so they came back with an offer based on average price of like for like replacements in my area. Used car values vary by region. Sound to me as though the Insurers are trying it on to keep their costs down.

 

[Tranona]

Re the initial offer figure, does Marine Insurance not work like Car Insurance? My car was written off after some prat drove into at speed while it was parked roadside. Insurance Company offered me a ridiculously low sum. I rejected it, so they came back with an offer based on average price of like for like replacements in my area. Used car values vary by region. Sound to me as though the Insurers are trying it on to keep their costs down.

Depends on how the contract is written. You are right most car insurance contracts pay out in relation to replacement value based on market value, although they can also be agreed value contracts. I have such a policy for my Morgan and before that an MGB.

Most boat insurance is agreed value like the OPs, although some are market value based. The problem with the latter is that it is often impossible to establish a "market value" because it is a "thin" market. Agreed values are based on a valuation. Some insurers accept owners declared values, others ask for an independent valuation. for my current boat the purchase price was £12.5k, the surveyor valuation was £15k which the insurer accepted. After the refit I submitted a costed list of work carried out and a broker valuation of £36k. That is what they will pay out for total loss, but more importantly it is the basis for agreeing to repair work short of total loss.