Insurance Renewal - Outboard Kill Cord Clause

[ylop]

If you are single handed it's best to have the engine running when you let go your lines....maybe not start again and you are adrift...

I don't have a magic bullet for the single-handed leisure sailor who's not confident about restarting his engine (and I do think that is always at least a theoretical risk even on a well maintained engine), who is unable to run his lines such that they can be slipped from the cockpit... but it strikes me that if such a situation arose in almost any other setting and injury resulted to a third party through accidental activation of a throttle whilst it was unattended (perhaps because a "helpful" person on shore throws a line) then the post incident analysis would conclude that the vessel was not sufficiently manned for the operation it was attempting.

Im sorry buy that is just plain wrong. The last thing I want when Im trying to grab a mooring or come along side is for the engine to quit.

I think the engine not restarting or accidentally quitting argument is a bit misplaced - it’s always possible for an engine to cut out at just the wrong moment.

I suspect that like kill cords on dinghies the reason people do things certain ways is because that's the way they've always done it and they've never had an issue, and we are not very attuned to looking at things we’ve always done that way and asking if there is a better way and instead we invent or regurgitate justifications for your established method without any really critique.

 

[billskip]

No, i said earlier what kind of craft

Post number?

 

[Boathook]

Er, no. You install a kill cord socket on your console. Or have I missed a wind-up ?

My boat is a 30 foot cat weighing around 4 tons. If the wind catches the bows you need power quickly to avoid hitting boats either side of my mooring. Having to start the engine, normally first turn of the key, and then put power on is another few seconds. I also have to factor in river flow.

 

[billskip]

I don't have a magic bullet for the single-handed

In all the years I have been boating and many of those on the Thames boats don't cast off before starting the engine ...
Can you imagine the chaos in the locks

 

[Boathook]

I don't have a magic bullet for the single-handed leisure sailor who's not confident about restarting his engine (and I do think that is always at least a theoretical risk even on a well maintained engine), who is unable to run his lines such that they can be slipped from the cockpit... but it strikes me that if such a situation arose in almost any other setting and injury resulted to a third party through accidental activation of a throttle whilst it was unattended (perhaps because a "helpful" person on shore throws a line) then the post incident analysis would conclude that the vessel was not sufficiently manned for the operation it was attempting.

I think the engine not restarting or accidentally quitting argument is a bit misplaced - it’s always possible for an engine to cut out at just the wrong moment.

I suspect that like kill cords on dinghies the reason people do things certain ways is because that's the way they've always done it and they've never had an issue, and we are not very attuned to looking at things we’ve always done that way and asking if there is a better way and instead we invent or regurgitate justifications for your established method without any really critique.

My mooing lines are a fixed length and stay at the mooring all neatly hooked up ready for my return. Modern engine control boxes are difficult to accidentally operate as they require a catch to be lifted before the throttle / gear change can be operated. My engine is a Honda 30.
I have found over the years that a running engine is more likely to carry on working rather than one that has been stopped and you hope it restarts

 

[ylop]

In all the years I have been boating and many of those on the Thames boats don't cast off before starting the engine ...
Can you imagine the chaos in the locks

If only there was a way to handle your lines and mange your engine - like having a crew member or bringing the lines back to the helm! I’m not advocating untying before starting your engine - I’m advocating not leaving your engine controls unattended if they can be knocked.

 

[ylop]

My mooing lines are a fixed length and stay at the mooring all neatly hooked up ready for my return.

That is the sort of thinking which I’m talking about though - you could change your mooring lines if you wanted a slightly safer system of work!

Modern engine control boxes are difficult to accidentally operate as they require a catch to be lifted before the throttle / gear change can be operated. My engine is a Honda 30.

I agree outboard engine OEM controls do usually have neutral lock, of course sometimes people are engaging power and leaving the helm (to hold against a spring etc). For some reason neutral lock is often not a feature on inboards or non OEM controls.

 

[lustyd]

I can’t tell if people are purposefully conflating small boats and large just so they can enjoy an argument.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting untying a cruising boat before starting an engine.
If you’re in a tender or a RIB though, you absolutely should pull the cord if you move about the boat and if your engine doesn’t restart when stopped, do some damned maintenance!

 

[Mark-1]

ignoring risk for convenience.

The convenience of having an engine running during close quarters manoeuvres....

 

[billskip]

If only there was a way to handle your lines and mange your engine - like having a crew member or bringing the lines back to the helm! I’m not advocating untying before starting your engine - I’m advocating not leaving your engine controls unattended if they can be knocked.

Sorry, but you have to understand you can't twist the world around just to make you look right...because sadly like us all you won't always be right...quit while your ahead..

 

[Boathook]

That is the sort of thinking which I’m talking about though - you could change your mooring lines if you wanted a slightly safer system of work!

I used to have the lines on the boat but changed to fix length left ashore as it was easier and felt safer; a safer system of work

 

[Boathook]

I agree outboard engine OEM controls do usually have neutral lock, of course sometimes people are engaging power and leaving the helm (to hold against a spring etc). For some reason neutral lock is often not a feature on inboards or non OEM controls.

More reason for those boats to have a kill cord if it is so easy to operate the controls.

 

[winch2]

Im finding the whole discussion around switching off the engine alongside before securing the boat to be quite extraordinary, but its a free world and if thats what you do then so be it.... May I simply ask that you don't do it when I'm nearby. Thanks.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Im finding the whole discussion around switching off the engine alongside before securing the boat to be quite extraordinary, but its a free world and if thats what you do then so be it.... May I simply ask that you don't do it when I'm nearby. Thanks.

We won’t be, anytime before hell freezes over. Like Boathook, the few seconds it might take to go to neutral, restart and re engage gear might easily be our downfall. When nearly stopped, fore and aft wise, we are inclined to do a couple of knots sideways. We like to precisely coincide cessation of forward or backward motion with being attached to something mostly immovable. Usually accomplished by a handful of throttle if it’s windy and we’ve approached at moderate speed.

 

[winch2]

And dead sailors are often people who didn’t know when it would be required!

Bit strong. Ive been messing about on the water for ever.. am I dead? of course not, have I been nearly dead? Nope never, tho thats not to say Ive been in some hairy situations... So why not? Because Iam supremely aware of my environment.
There's an old Mariners saying.. "One hand for yourself, one hand for the ship". Its an idea that I think has been eroded due to the persistent idea that the latest piece of safety gear is going to save you from yourself, so you no longer need to be constantly vigilant, and anyway if anything happens the insurance company will see your alright.

 

[ylop]

Bit strong. Ive been messing about on the water for ever.. am I dead? of course not, have I been nearly dead? Nope never, tho thats not to say Ive been in some hairy situations... So why not? Because Iam supremely aware of my environment.

Your lack of reading comprehension seems to be the issue here.

There's an old Mariners saying.. "One hand for yourself, one hand for the ship". Its an idea that I think has been eroded

Precisely the sort of issue that made me mention lifejacket in a kill cord thread - someone blasting along (probably planing) in an inflatable no kill cord, no lifejacket, sitting on the tube, who then lets go of the tiller to film their YouTube piece to camera. Not an inexperienced person.

due to the persistent idea that the latest piece of safety gear is going to save you from yourself, so you no longer need to be constantly vigilant,

Risk Compensation is a very real thing, widely recognised in most contexts. I see very little evidence of risk compensation on the sort of dinghy trips the OP was alluding to - quite the opposite.

and anyway if anything happens the insurance company will see your alright.

Well those who are arguing the insurer should sort all your mistakes actually seem to be in the “kill cords - meh” camp!

 

[ylop]

Im finding the whole discussion around switching off the engine alongside before securing the boat to be quite extraordinary, but it’s a free world and if thats what you do then so be it.... May I simply ask that you don't do it when I'm nearby. Thanks.

I don’t think that’s actually what was being argued! But if you wander 30ft from the controls you might need to ask yourself some questions - like can the wind catch the boom and flip the main sheet over them, or an enthusiastic shore helper throw a line in your cockpit when the boat is not secure to the dock and there’s no one close enough to quickly sort it. There are risk mitigations - plenty of threads here on singlehanded techniques to avoid leaving the cockpit, or having another pair of hands on board.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If we are being blown off our mooring, we have 2 choices. Put the transom up to the pontoon and put the stern line on, take the bow line ashore, thread it through the bow cleat and back to a winch. Or else, Mrs C steps off the bow, puts the line on and waves. I put the helm over, put the engine in reverse, pick up the stern line and get out on the ama. As the stern is pulled in by the steerable outboard, I step ashore and make off the stern line, then go back aboard to put it in neutral and turn off. That second method is so much easier. The wind has already done everything it’s going to. Admittedly, it might be tricky if the bow line broke. And we, in common with everyone else we know, politely refuse offers of help from unknown shore based people. That is an absolute guarantee of disaster.

 

[lustyd]

Im finding the whole discussion around switching off the engine alongside before securing the boat to be quite extraordinary, but its a free world and if thats what you do then so be it.... May I simply ask that you don't do it when I'm nearby. Thanks.

Well the discussion was about boats that require kill cords, perhaps you missed that part. Nobody is suggesting docking a yacht with the engine off as far as I can tell, but a RIB, dinghy or speedboat you absolutely should not leave the helm with the engine running.

 

[billskip]

, or where the power is sufficiently high to unbalance someone

Is 3000hp sufficiently high?

. Nobody is suggesting docking a yacht with the engine off as far as I can tell,

You really need to catch yourself on....