Insurance Renewal - Outboard Kill Cord Clause

Chiara’s slave said:
Its like drawing teeth…. The boat is an RCD category B. Which is offshore, up to 200 miles. The insurers are happy with that.
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Ah, so now I understand the problem! You don't understand the RCD! The RCD doesn't define the design categories in terms of distance offshore. It defines them in terms of expected wind speeds and significant wave heights (Cat B being up to F8 and 4m). If your insurer is happy for you to take your RCD Cat B boat 200 miles offshore that is fine, but it is inspite of not because of its RCD rating. Hence why I asked what you were expected to do if you found yourself if conditions outside the design envelope.
 
ylop said:
Ah, so now I understand the problem! You don't understand the RCD! The RCD doesn't define the design categories in terms of distance offshore. It defines them in terms of expected wind speeds and significant wave heights (Cat B being up to F8 and 4m). If your insurer is happy for you to take your RCD Cat B boat 200 miles offshore that is fine, but it is inspite of not because of its RCD rating. Hence why I asked what you were expected to do if you found yourself if conditions outside the design envelope.
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Category B
Category B is designed for yachts intended for offshore cruising in moderately challenging conditions. These yachts are constructed to withstand wind speeds of up to 8 on the Beaufort scale and significant wave heights of up to 4 meters for voyages up to 200 miles from shelter. They are ideal for coastal and offshore cruising where occasional adverse weather conditions may be encountered.
 
Chiara’s slave said:
Category B
Category B is designed for yachts intended for offshore cruising in moderately challenging conditions. These yachts are constructed to withstand wind speeds of up to 8 on the Beaufort scale and significant wave heights of up to 4 meters for voyages up to 200 miles from shelter. They are ideal for coastal and offshore cruising where occasional adverse weather conditions may be encountered.
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The words in bold do not appear in the recreational craft directive! There is also a subtle difference between 200 miles offshore and 200 miles from shelter. I don't know where you found that but relevant part of the UK RCR which replicates the EU RCD into national law are here:

The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017
 
ylop said:
The words in bold do not appear in the recreational craft directive! There is also a subtle difference between 200 miles offshore and 200 miles from shelter. I don't know where you found that but relevant part of the UK RCR which replicates the EU RCD into national law are here:

The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017
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Fir pity’s sake! That is what my insurers, and pretty much the rest of the world, who aren’t pedantic to the point of despair, understand by it, it’s put like that in hundreds of documents. De facto, that is the definition.
 
Chiara’s slave said:
Fir pity’s sake! That is what my insurers, and pretty much the rest of the world, who aren’t pedantic to the point of despair, understand by it, it’s put like that in hundreds of documents. De facto, that is the definition.
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To be fair to ylop, at the start of this rabbit hole he specifically asked "Is that your particular insurer’s label?".

You could have just said "Yes."
 
Chiara’s slave said:
Fir pity’s sake! That is what my insurers, and pretty much the rest of the world, who aren’t pedantic to the point of despair, understand by it, it’s put like that in hundreds of documents. De facto, that is the definition.
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It 100% is NOT the definition in the RCD - which I have provided. If you had simply said, when I asked, that your insurer has their own definition of "Offshore" which is 200 NM from land (or is it from a safe haven?) we wouldn't be having this discussion. You implied and then insisted that your insurance inherited your cruising range from the RCD. The RCD did use words to describe cat A-D (Ocean/Offshore/Inshore/Sheltered) but ditched them 12 years ago precisely because they were seeing ambiguity that it implied an area of operation rather than environmental conditions.

You have "200NM offshore" cover on your insurance because you have chosen that (or its defaulted to that and you've not looked to save any cost) not because you own an RCD Cat B boat. You have conflated these two issues. I've checked my current policy and a quote I have from Pants and neither refer to the RCD category.

You think I'm being a pedantic tw@ - actually I'm potentially stopping someone else from falling into a trap of not understanding their insurance policy properly because they assume that their insurer knows the RCD cat of the boat and that makes it ok to sail anywhere its rated for, or someone in the future believing that an RCD Cat B boat was designed to make 200 mile from land trips: Stornoway to Reykjavik?
 
lustyd said:
I certainly remember the distance element. I couldn’t say which specific cert included it but it’s certainly been a thing either UK or EU.
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The U.K. has only ever reproduced the RCD by cutting and pasting, so they are one and the same. There is no mention of distances anywhere in the directives (I’ve provided a link). People may misremember some sort of distance link because they used the words Sheltered, Inshore, Offshore and Ocean to accompany D, C, B, A but it was precisely this conflict that meant they dropped it in the new directive in 2013. Other countries might have linked operating regions to boat classification but the U.K. of course has a lassez faire attitude to regulated pleasure vessels.
 
Lucky Duck said:
I thought the distance from safe haven came from the commercial coding categories?
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Well it does have that in there (and cross references the RCD too) BUT its limits are 3/20/60/150 miles across 7 different categories. An RCD Cat B boat would usually at best be limited to 60 NM from a safe haven.
 
Lucky Duck said:
I thought the distance from safe haven came from the commercial coding categories?
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IMO Areas of Operation for small commercial vessels 3.2 Areas of Operation

Doesn’t apply to recreational vessels

But some regulators seem to think should be applied to recreational craft. Somebody suggested these Areas of Operation should be applied to navigation systems, with highest requirements for ocean going and least for inshore boats. But this is actually the opposite of what is needed. I pointed out that when we did the ARC there were precisely ZERO charted hazards in the 3,000 mile voyage, other than within a couple of miles of the start and end destination. By contrast, for example departing Arisaig there are literally hundreds of dangerous rocks within 2 miles of the jetty.
 
lustyd said:
Seems reasonable, it’s about time they were mandatory for all small outboards/boats whether originally fitted or not. The UK can’t even stop imports of two strokes for private use though so doubtful we’ll ever see it.
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Never ever get rid of two strokes. Lighter and far more powerful. And before anyone starts did you know the biggest of big container ships are two stroke so if you think you are saving the planet with your 2hp or 4hp four stroke think again.I have a total of 5 two strokes of different sizes. Easy to use, easy to fix.
 
Two strokes are already illegal so that ship has sailed aside from those illegally buying and importing them.
Just because someone else does something bad doesn’t make it OK. I quite like the environment, my main hobby is sailing in it so forgive me for doing my bit.
 
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