Insurance maintenance recommendations-unreasonable?

[Refueler]

Wreck removal insurance is a necessary condition for a marina contract in much of the Med.

Its actually a req't for most marinas incl UK .....

I've never heard of a survey needed on 3rd Party cover - (3rd Party cover includes Wreck Removal).

 

[Refueler]

Indeed my experience as well before this years renewal. However, this year, my marina for the first time insisted that renewals were accompanied by a copy of the insurance certificate, along with the usual declaration of insurer and value on the annual berth agreement renewal form. I don't think the marina actually checks the certificate, just hold it on file.

Before I left UK - the last year of marina berth - I was asked to give copy of Insurance. When I advised that it was 3rd Party - they specified Wreck Removal clause must be included. I was with Basic Boat and that as does near all 3rd Party Boat policies - incl's Wreck Removal.

 

[BabaYaga]

Both practises are correct. For split pins that move with the device, bending back is usually more secure as a snagged splayed pin can pull out. For stationary rigging, the splayed advice is good enough. Also if the split pin protrudes, bending right back can be easier to make snag free. Horses for courses.

The wording of insurer (properly) suggests to me that he does not acknowledge both practices as correct. Which in turn makes one wonder how well founded and reasonable the requirement is.

 

[Tranona]

Indeed my experience as well before this years renewal. However, this year, my marina for the first time insisted that renewals were accompanied by a copy of the insurance certificate, along with the usual declaration of insurer and value on the annual berth agreement renewal form. I don't think the marina actually checks the certificate, just hold it on file.

The certificate does not include a list of what is covered - that is in the policy document. So they are just assuming wreck removal is covered (as it is on most policies)

 

[Tranona]

Before I left UK - the last year of marina berth - I was asked to give copy of Insurance. When I advised that it was 3rd Party - they specified Wreck Removal clause must be included. I was with Basic Boat and that as does near all 3rd Party Boat policies - incl's Wreck Removal.

I think you are a bit out of date and insurers are being more restrictive. I the last month (can't find the exact thread) there were people having difficulty getting wreck cover without a survey on old low value boats.

 

[steveeasy]

Same here which causes problems for some who only have third party which may not include wreck removal. Fortunately it really is not a big problem because sinkings are so rare. In my experience marinas do not check insurance but rely on a declaration by the boat owner (many of whom I guess have not actually checked whether they are covered)

Think marinas are more keen now to check valid ins is held. My current yard and previous have asked for copy of docs.

Steveeasy

 

[Mark-1]

I think you are a bit out of date and insurers are being more restrictive. I the last month (can't find the exact thread) there were people having difficulty getting wreck cover without a survey on old low value boats.

I'm currently with Basic Boat and it currently includes wreck removal with no survey.

I suspect a survey for those of us paying ~£70 for insurance would be a substantial additional cost/hassle.

 

[Refueler]

I'm currently with Basic Boat and it currently includes wreck removal with no survey.

I suspect a survey for those of us paying ~£70 for insurance would be a substantial additional cost/hassle.

Thank you.

With all respect to Tranona .. I find it all too often that statements are made - then vague support later comments made when shown to be questionable.

 

[Tranona]

Thank you.

With all respect to Tranona .. I find it all too often that statements are made - then vague support later comments made when shown to be questionable.

If I had the time I would find the thread that specifically covered this issue. The posters were having difficulty in getting third part and wreck coverage as new proposers. I did not say that others had third party with wreck coverage, but that new boat owners with low value boats were being asked for a survey.

It seems though that your "respect" does not extend to believing what I say

 

[Mark-1]

If I had the time I would find the thread that specifically covered this issue. The posters were having difficulty in getting third part and wreck coverage as new proposers. I did not say that others had third party with wreck coverage, but that new boat owners with low value boats were being asked for a survey.

It seems though that your "respect" does not extend to believing what I say

I grepped the policy documents online and can't find the word survey anywhere.

However, in the course of doing that I noticed something in the summary that made my hair stand on end:

"No cover is provided if you are towing any person, boat or toy on water"

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/64E152C3-F1B0-4CB6-8EB5-63B06A876286.pdf

I'm almost always towing a tender and sometimes towing dinghies and/or toys.

...but towing isn't mentioned in the actual policy wording:

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/FA065647-4C71-40F0-9653-EFF175CB9CEA.pdf

I'm going to carry on just as before, but it's a bit strange.

 

[Tranona]

I grepped the policy documents online and can't find the word survey anywhere.

However, in the course of doing that I noticed something in the summary that made my hair stand on end:

"No cover is provided if you are towing any person, boat or toy on water"

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/64E152C3-F1B0-4CB6-8EB5-63B06A876286.pdf

I'm almost always towing a tender and sometimes towing dinghies and/or toys.

...but towing isn't mentioned in the actual policy wording:

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/FA065647-4C71-40F0-9653-EFF175CB9CEA.pdf

I'm going to carry on just as before, but it's a bit strange.

The requirement for a survey would not appear on the policy. It arises at the proposal stage where the insurer sets the conditions of cover, or at the renewal stage if the insurer changes conditions. For example many insurers changed a few years ago requiring a survey on 40 or 50 year old boats to continue comprehensive cover, although some accept alternatives such as boatyard reports or owner's inspection with photos for existing policyholders.

To expand a bit more on the earlier thread which was a request for recommendations of insurers that offered third party with wreck cover and others responded like you with your experience. At least one poster tried all the recommended insurers but could not get the same cover. I don't remember all the details but he was an experienced sailor but first time boat owner of a low value boat. Of course there may be other reasons why cover was refused, but it was clear that wreck cover is no longer standard on third party cover even though it has been historically the norm.

See also here post#22
forums.ybw.com/threads/boat-insurance.605643/page-2#post-8379792

 

[Refueler]

If I had the time I would find the thread that specifically covered this issue. The posters were having difficulty in getting third part and wreck coverage as new proposers. I did not say that others had third party with wreck coverage, but that new boat owners with low value boats were being asked for a survey.

It seems though that your "respect" does not extend to believing what I say

I find it hard to accept - as its a fundamental clause that mooring providers will ask for. Second that I have never seen or heard of Survey for 3rd Party cover before or since - other than your post.

I would be extreme4ly interested to see an example - so if you do find .. I'm all ears. Just seen your link to :

Boat Insurance ....

mmmmm interesting ... and calls for more info as to why.

When it comes to 3rd party cover - I have not really understood why people don't use Basic Boat and go with big name Broker Houses - I cannot see their premiums being better !!

 

[Refueler]

I grepped the policy documents online and can't find the word survey anywhere.

However, in the course of doing that I noticed something in the summary that made my hair stand on end:

"No cover is provided if you are towing any person, boat or toy on water"

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/64E152C3-F1B0-4CB6-8EB5-63B06A876286.pdf

I'm almost always towing a tender and sometimes towing dinghies and/or toys.

...but towing isn't mentioned in the actual policy wording:

https://www.basic-boat.com/uploads/FA065647-4C71-40F0-9653-EFF175CB9CEA.pdf

I'm going to carry on just as before, but it's a bit strange.

I would assume that the 'towing' clause has come about because of the e4volution of the wake riding we see so often now ... Sppedboats pulling 'donuts' etc ..

It may also just be poorly worded to negate claims for that towed item ... it is 3rd party cover after all.

I would personally contact Basic Boat and clarify.

 

[Mark-1]

I would assume that the 'towing' clause has come about because of the e4volution of the wake riding we see so often now ... Sppedboats pulling 'donuts' etc ..

It may also just be poorly worded to negate claims for that towed item ... it is 3rd party cover after all.

I would personally contact Basic Boat and clarify.

Since it doesn't feature in the detailed policy document I'm not going to sweat it at all. Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure you've hit the nail on the head with "negate claims for that towed item".

It seems though that your "respect" does not extend to believing what I say

"In God we Trust." Everyone else brings data.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

And what about people that secure their rigging with monel wire? I’ve done this for years and never had a rigging screw work loose. Mind you, it is never reused when removed.

 

[Tranona]

I find it hard to accept - as its a fundamental clause that mooring providers will ask for. Second that I have never seen or heard of Survey for 3rd Party cover before or since - other than your post.

I would be extreme4ly interested to see an example - so if you do find .. I'm all ears. Just seen your link to :

Boat Insurance ....

mmmmm interesting ... and calls for more info as to why.

When it comes to 3rd party cover - I have not really understood why people don't use Basic Boat and go with big name Broker Houses - I cannot see their premiums being better !!

I know you find it hard to accept - but then you are not a new boat owner with a low value boat seeking insurance for the first time in the UK, which is the example I gave - and I am not imagining it as I had a number of exchanges with the poster making suggestions. He decided to get the boat surveyed anyway. The consolidation of marine insurers, limited underwriting capacity and the lack of profits in recent years have led to far more selectivity. OK for long standing no claim people like me who pay peanuts, but tough on new entrants trying to insure a low value (and therefore low premium) boat for the first time.

Why not ask Graham if there is any other information about his case but I guess that insurer just decided it did not want that type of business.