Inside helm position - real life experience?
- Thread starter Romeo
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Plum
Well-Known Member
Buy a bottle of RainX window cleaner and apply on outside as per instructions. I no longer get smearing and forgot about my plan to fit a washer. (RainX supply a version for glass and another for plastic glazing)
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/s...EHNm5lm8SIuD8efOwnbSmVB5_Ca6_DqhoCS6gQAvD_BwE
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
My dad had a Finnsailer 35 on the West Coast of Scotland that had a semi-enclosed helm seat - he built a canvas back that could close it off so there was an enclosed area by the companionway with a forward facing seat on each side. When the weather closed in, it was a great place to be.
Don't know about the rest of the Pilot saloons with inside steering positions, but it is only really useful when motoring IMO. There is a reason why motorboats always have inside steering positions .... they don't have sails.
... basically, great for motoring in foul weather, less so for sailing. All-round visibility will not be as good as outside, and sailing from inside will require going outside regularly to adjust ropes, reef, etc. .... and then comes the million dollar question, What happens in squalls? - Inside, you can only steer in response, instead of trimming sails or dumping the main or genoa. IMO, this is the point where I would be helming outside anyway, even with an inside steering position.
For me it boils down to two questions .... Are you a die-hard boat user who goes out in all weather regardless? , and, Is your cruising ground somewhere where the weather is often cold and wet even in summer?
If the answer to both those questions is yes, then definitely consider an inside steering position for getting around under motor, when sailing you're going to be out in the elements anyway.
For transparency, I sail in the Med so never considered an inside helm position, but I do encounter thunderstorms and heavy rain regularly. In this situation I hide under the sprayhood on autopilot where I can control the boat with the remote control. If sailing, I can still tend to the mainsheet, and ease the genoa sheets too. Obviously the air temperature is still relatively high, so not comparable to northern climes.
Don't know about the rest of the Pilot saloons with inside steering positions, but it is only really useful when motoring IMO. There is a reason why motorboats always have inside steering positions .... they don't have sails.
... basically, great for motoring in foul weather, less so for sailing. All-round visibility will not be as good as outside, and sailing from inside will require going outside regularly to adjust ropes, reef, etc. .... and then comes the million dollar question, What happens in squalls? - Inside, you can only steer in response, instead of trimming sails or dumping the main or genoa. IMO, this is the point where I would be helming outside anyway, even with an inside steering position.
For me it boils down to two questions .... Are you a die-hard boat user who goes out in all weather regardless? , and, Is your cruising ground somewhere where the weather is often cold and wet even in summer?
If the answer to both those questions is yes, then definitely consider an inside steering position for getting around under motor, when sailing you're going to be out in the elements anyway.
For transparency, I sail in the Med so never considered an inside helm position, but I do encounter thunderstorms and heavy rain regularly. In this situation I hide under the sprayhood on autopilot where I can control the boat with the remote control. If sailing, I can still tend to the mainsheet, and ease the genoa sheets too. Obviously the air temperature is still relatively high, so not comparable to northern climes.
Ado
Member
As an alternative thought, though probably too radical for most, a number of catamaran designs make internal watch keeping feasible. All round view from a level position, easy access to the cockpit for trimming coupled to an auto helm remote with easy access to the galley, heads and very important to me heater controls enable me to singlehanded my 39' cat.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
So do a number of Mono Hulls
Ado
Member
I was aware of that.
nevis768
Well-Known Member
had a Mascot 28 for 18 months or so, it sailed quite well, but I found I only motored in the pilothouse when the weather was bad, no sailing because you couldn't see the sails that easily. I don't like motoring, so I sold it for a boat that sails better, and have not regretted it so far. I've just come back from Clyde to NI trip, and while cool I sailed most of the way which I wouldn't have done in the pilot house boat, it's sailing performance would have been too slow for the light winds. I think that's the key, if you like motoring a motor sailer is fine, if you don't like the engine a yacht with a good SAD is better
billyfish
Well-Known Member
We have a Degaro 28. Boy is it good. Wipers.washers.Blown hot air from the engine and from the Planer. Doesn't sail too bad. Anything within 40 degrees on goes the tonk...7knots .wind behind, kite up off u go 
Steer by tiller outside
Wheel inside
Disconnect with hydraulic valve
Autopilot by Ray.......decent chap holds the course better than me .
Steer by tiller outside
Wheel inside
Disconnect with hydraulic valve
Autopilot by Ray.......decent chap holds the course better than me .
NormanS
Well-Known Member
I sail on the West Coast (where else?), and like Supertramp, have a Cromarty36, a deck saloon ketch. We have a wheel and engine controls, both inside and out. She's not the fastest under sail, but makes up for that with comfort, which at our age is increasingly important.
Almost all of our sailing is from "outside", although visibility under the genoa is better from inside.
If motoring in poor weather, which does happen occasionally one the West Coast, the inside helm, with heating from the engine, is the obvious choice.
One of the real benefits of the deck saloon, is at anchor. We tend to head for some of the more out of the way parts, and really like to be able to see what's going on around us, while sitting inside in comfort.
No boat is perfect, but my wife and I are very happy with ours.
I remember a conversation with an old guy in the boatyard, where he said that his ambition was to have a boat with a windscreen wiper. Well, we have three.
Almost all of our sailing is from "outside", although visibility under the genoa is better from inside.
If motoring in poor weather, which does happen occasionally one the West Coast, the inside helm, with heating from the engine, is the obvious choice.
One of the real benefits of the deck saloon, is at anchor. We tend to head for some of the more out of the way parts, and really like to be able to see what's going on around us, while sitting inside in comfort.
No boat is perfect, but my wife and I are very happy with ours.
I remember a conversation with an old guy in the boatyard, where he said that his ambition was to have a boat with a windscreen wiper. Well, we have three.
Tombuoy2
New Member
Ideal set up for west coast of Scotland! My only experience of this type was positive. Sailed on a Trintella 57A (lovely boat) from Mauritius via Reunion to South Africa a few years ago. Hit the expected Aghulas weather somewhere south of Madagascar, which caused a somewhat interesting moment when the roller furling Genoa casting let go with a bang, and we on deck got rather wet taking the sail down in the black dark in 46knots wind, yet inside the wheelhouse it was cosy and lovely!
Night watches became much more sociable occasions, as off watch crew were happy to sit alongside in comfort.
It also was a nice place to sit when alongside, much better views of where you are.
And yes, the window wipers were pretty cool too!
Night watches became much more sociable occasions, as off watch crew were happy to sit alongside in comfort.
It also was a nice place to sit when alongside, much better views of where you are.
And yes, the window wipers were pretty cool too!
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
My previous boat was a Southerly with an internal helm. I never used it. Despite having wind screen wipers the visibility was too poor to keep a safe lookout in my opinion.
paulbrown22
Well-Known Member
We swapped from nearly 20 years of Ovni ownership to a late model Fisher 34 with primarily inside wheel house steering. Personally I don't miss being outside at all, there's plenty of opening windows for air/light (and an overhead sliding roof so you can see the main), and if you really want whilst sailing you can use the tiller in the cockpit (we've never yet had it out). Visibility on the Fishers isn't bad when out at sea, but a combination of being confined in the pilot house for steering/throttle and the high bulwarks and raised bow of the Fishers make navigating in tight confines slightly more challenging, and I find myself moving from side to side of the pilot house to see everything. The high bow means you have to ensure you look far enough ahead, as you do lose sight of buoys, etc. Communication with people on deck/bow is also challenging, so we have some radio headsets for two way communication.
Other than that though no issues at all, and there is a lot to be said for a warm, dry and comfortable steering position!
Other than that though no issues at all, and there is a lot to be said for a warm, dry and comfortable steering position!
E39mad
Well-Known Member
Do you have the Mk 111 interior layout?
I arranged this when I worked as a salesman for Northshore between 1990 and 1996. The head module was modified from a Vancouver 34.
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rotrax
Well-Known Member
A very experienced delivery crew-not a skipper, but a top and reliable crew/watchkeeper who was rarely without a gig-assisted with the delivery trip on our Island Packet SP Cruiser in 2016.
The trip was in May, from Gloucester Docks to Gosport.
After seeing the boat he was scathing. "Fat ugly bastard-bet it sails like a brick! Look at that small rig! And the windage! Whatever made you buy this!"
He was complimentary about the comfortable twin guest Stateroom which had lots of room for his huge bag of sailing kit. Which, AFAIK, he never even opened.
Three days later, rounding Lands End at just after midnight in a good F6, pissing with rain and as black as your hat he was dressed in shorts and teeshirt extolling our new boats many virtues. Especially the huge pilothouse with side by side helm seats and a perfect view of the instruments and plotter.
Horses for courses. All boats are a compromise, some have more compromises than others.
The boat pictured, alongside the Harbourmasters pontoon in Londonderry, was the best compromise for First Mate and I.
It would not be if sailing qualities were high on your list of priorities.
The trip was in May, from Gloucester Docks to Gosport.
After seeing the boat he was scathing. "Fat ugly bastard-bet it sails like a brick! Look at that small rig! And the windage! Whatever made you buy this!"
He was complimentary about the comfortable twin guest Stateroom which had lots of room for his huge bag of sailing kit. Which, AFAIK, he never even opened.
Three days later, rounding Lands End at just after midnight in a good F6, pissing with rain and as black as your hat he was dressed in shorts and teeshirt extolling our new boats many virtues. Especially the huge pilothouse with side by side helm seats and a perfect view of the instruments and plotter.
Horses for courses. All boats are a compromise, some have more compromises than others.
The boat pictured, alongside the Harbourmasters pontoon in Londonderry, was the best compromise for First Mate and I.
It would not be if sailing qualities were high on your list of priorities.
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paulbrown22
Well-Known Member
Ah ha, we know who to come to with questions then
.Yes, ours is a 2001 hull with the Mk III layout with the linear galley which personally I prefer for our usage, although I can appreciate some people prefer the Mk II layout where you can really squash yourself in at sea securely.
We love the pilot house too - an amazing warm/dry/comfortable place to steer, and no concerns about our small children going overboard!
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billyfish
Well-Known Member
Still got her then Mike.
Sailorphil
New Member
Moody Eclipse 43 ( also in 38 & 33 ) is great compromise. Internal helm though is not good for close manouvering but when on passage we use the auto pilot controls and stand watch inside when weather is bad. We do a meercat check every so often from the companionway and the rest of time can be spent in the deck saloon.
Phil
Australia
Phil
Australia
nevis768
Well-Known Member
Having had a pilothouse, it's fine if you like motoring. but I missed sailing, and no longer have one. One reason against them, for me, is how badly they go to windward, that;s possibly my main objection, hence you either do a lot of tacking and don't get anywhere or you use the engine because you're lucky if it will go 40 degrees to the wind.
Sailing gentlemen don't put the engine on....
Sailing gentlemen don't put the engine on....
Whaup367
Well-Known Member
While true, it's worth bearing in mind that only 24 E-38s and 38 E-43s were built. Some luck or patience might be needed.
I've held off pitching in on this, as I don't have the real-life-experience requested, but I was keen on this idea when looking for a comfortable boat to sail on the west coast a few years back. I did some research and concluded that the options were pretty limited; and the compromises become quite stark as the boats get smaller. I didn't want a big boat with the associated running costs (people's definitions vary but for two of us anything over 40' seems excessive to me).
Headroom requirements push rooflines upwards, increasing windage & raising the boom. Some careful design can mitigate this but it pushes costs up and may have other impacts. The inside helm seems to work better on bigger boats, where the lines more easily accommodate the interior spaces.
If the OP is looking at bigger boats (mid-40' or more?) then an inside helm is achievable with fewer compromises.
On advice, we opted for a windscreen+sprayhood combo. It provides pretty good weather protection, though not the full pipe+slippers experience. The sprayhood can easily be lowered to improve windage and there are quite a few well-built boats available in this configuration, hence more choice at any given time & place.