information on Croatia please

[RichardS]

Good to find all the "old style" restaurants that offer good food and value. It's amazing what you can still find if you have a car and can head 5km inland.......

You don't need a car - every year we stumble across several "meat or fish with home grown veg" restaurants right on the shore. Just find a secluded bay with no large town nearby and just one restaurant in the bay and it will probably be "meat or fish".

If you order fish you get a whole grilled fish, which you can just about finish, at a very reasonable price. I've done this in Greece without asking the price in advance and had to phone my Bank Manager for help when the bill arrives!

Richard

 

[MapisM]

I suspect that the "decent" one was the Amica restaurant situated at the base of the steamer pier, with the terrace out to the water next to it.

It could well be, but TBH I can't tell for sure.
Actually, the only thing I still remember is that we had a very good grilled lobster at a reasonable price!
But we weren't in the peak season. And it was a dozen or so of years ago...

 

[Metabarca]

Yes, Amica is the one to go for. The first and still the best on Ilovik (San Pietro dei Nembi as was).
Barnacle: we are definitely on the same wavelength about Croatian charges!
Since the Croatians charge a lights fee, why don't they charge incoming motorists for the joy of using Croatia's traffic lights and white lines?

 

[BrianH]

Yes, Amica is the one to go for. The first and still the best on Ilovik (San Pietro dei Nembi as was).
Barnacle: we are definitely on the same wavelength about Croatian charges!
Since the Croatians charge a lights fee, why don't they charge incoming motorists for the joy of using Croatia's traffic lights and white lines?

Or for an exorbitant one-year vignette at the border just for driving around? It would be an accurate analogy for the sailing permit levied on a yacht when entering.

But this new Sejour Tax really is the ultimate of rip-off practices. Intended as a per head per overnight tax, I am alone in a boat (with a crew list that proves it) but I am charged for a number of heads that the boat could accommodate. And if I clear before the time declared on entry (I rarely know how long I will want to stay) I get no refund. Criminal

 

[Metabarca]

Or for an exorbitant one-year vignette at the border just for driving around? It would be an accurate analogy for the sailing permit levied on a yacht when entering.

But this new Sejour Tax really is the ultimate of rip-off practices. Intended as a per head per overnight tax, I am alone in a boat (with a crew list that proves it) but I am charged for a number of heads that the boat could accommodate. And if I clear before the time declared on entry (I rarely know how long I will want to stay) I get no refund. Criminal

Yup, which is why I sailed in Greece this year. It's a shame because Dalmatia is on my doorstep and I, like many others, could hop over for a long weekend now and then, but what with having to clear entry and pay up... no way. It's more their loss than mine.

 

[BrianH]

Yup, which is why I sailed in Greece this year. It's a shame because Dalmatia is on my doorstep and I, like many others, could hop over for a long weekend now and then, but what with having to clear entry and pay up... no way. It's more their loss than mine.

I too reached the Ionian in May (a very rough, 6-day trip) and was blown away by the difference in friendliness and mentality about how and for what visitors can and should be charged. If the northern Adriatic for me wasn't a comfortable half-day drive from home, my boat would surely be somewhere down there.

It isn't just my (admittedly) curmudgeonly, grumpy-old-man attitudes; my Italian marina is full of similarly-minded owners who no longer cross to Croatia and who are totally fed-up with the money-grabbing mentality. It is the main topic of conversation whenever a group of skippers congregate regardless of nationality, Italian, Austrian and German, that make up the majority of berth-holders.

Instead, for a short cruise, they cross the top of the Adriatic to Slovenia, despite the tiny coastline and limited ports and marinas, which, since EU accession, charges nothing and requires no entry declaration for EU-flagged boats.

As you point out, Croatia is losing out overall, but from my interpretation, couldn't care less because of the enormous charter income they have been building up.

 

[Oliveoyl]

Now that Croatia is all set for EU admission, maybe things will change? I don't think they'll be able to maintain their cruising permit fees, but maybe the "kurtax" (just spent a weekend in Dunkirk, where "taxe de séjour was added to hotel bill). But this can only be charged when using municipal facilities (water, waste, sewers...), and based on number of heads using said facilities. So at anchor - no charge; and certainly no upfornt charge for "theoretical" crew.

 

[BrianH]

Now that Croatia is all set for EU admission, maybe things will change? I don't think they'll be able to maintain their cruising permit fees, but maybe the "kurtax" (just spent a weekend in Dunkirk, where "taxe de séjour was added to hotel bill). But this can only be charged when using municipal facilities (water, waste, sewers...), and based on number of heads using said facilities.

Greece had to be dragged twice before the EU commission (instigated by the ever-watchful German cruising club) because of an analogous charge similar to the sailing permit - and that was for a mere €30.

I am sure the segour tax is planned as the back-up/replacement if/when the sailing vignette fee has to be dropped for EU-registered visitors in 2013. That tax is legal under EU law (despite its ludicrous application in Croatia) and infinitely adjustable; a typical mercenary introduction to keep squeezing the sailing fraternity until the pips squeak - as usual.

So at anchor - no charge; and certainly no upfront charge for "theoretical" crew.

They do it now, who will stop them after accession? If Greece can ignore the EU courts for years for what is clearly a breach of free movement, a determined authority can dig its heels in on what is a very grey area.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Now that Croatia is all set for EU admission, maybe things will change? I don't think they'll be able to maintain their cruising permit fees, but maybe the "kurtax" (just spent a weekend in Dunkirk, where "taxe de séjour was added to hotel bill). But this can only be charged when using municipal facilities (water, waste, sewers...), and based on number of heads using said facilities. So at anchor - no charge; and certainly no upfornt charge for "theoretical" crew.

Croatia may join the EU but I wonder whether they'll want to join the Euro, given it's present travails or indeed whether the Eurozone want Croatia in the Euro given that the Eurozone already has enough problems with feckless southern European countries! The EU has no jurisdiction over member state taxes (at present) so I don't see that joining the EU will make Croatia change it's policy on either it's cruising vignette or tourist tax. Also, if the experience of other Eurozone member countries is the same, prices in Croatia will rise after joining the Euro because vendors take the opportunity of hiking up prices whilst people are not yet familiar with the new currency

 

[RichardS]

If they wished they could declare the whole coastline a "National Park" and charge a daily rate for entering it. They're 50% of the way there now!

Richard

 

[Oliveoyl]

EU <> Eurozone

Croatia may join the EU but I wonder whether they'll want to join the Euro, given it's present travails or indeed whether the Eurozone want Croatia in the Euro given that the Eurozone already has enough problems with feckless southern European countries! The EU has no jurisdiction over member state taxes (at present) so I don't see that joining the EU will make Croatia change it's policy on either it's cruising vignette or tourist tax. Also, if the experience of other Eurozone member countries is the same, prices in Croatia will rise after joining the Euro because vendors take the opportunity of hiking up prices whilst people are not yet familiar with the new currency

The EU certainly has jursisdiction over member states' taxes, in so far as any tax levied has to be applied to nationals / EU citizens alike.Hence the aborted Greek attempt to tax only non-Greek boats, and current Italian propsals to tax all boats. True, they could hike "kurtax" rates, but would also have to apply it to nationals.

I guess they "could" transform most of the coast into National Parks, but then they really would be shooting themselves in the foot. Spent a week in September in the Hyères islands, also protected status, and apart from having to pay a hideous amount for a buoy in Port-Cros (to protect the seaweed!), no other financial exposure apart from rip-off restaurants

 

[BrianH]

True, they could hike "kurtax" rates, but would also have to apply it to nationals.

I don't quite see how that would work. Nationally-registered boats just go sailing, they don't have to report anywhere, they are already established in the country. Theoretically, they should not maintain the standard maritime regulations that visiting boats have to report to customs, immigration and the harbour authorities if they are EU-registered - just as Slovenia now operates.

Nevertheless, I cannot believe, on past experience, that they will forgo the sejour tax revenue that they can easily apply in marinas but lose on anchorages, which is why they now apply it on entering along with the vignette fee. Perhaps they will try to introduce a blanket tax similar to the new Italian one, which can be applied in marinas but still difficult for a visiting boat that only anchors. No doubt they will accelerate their buoyage programme, vide the plans for Veruda Soline, below Pula, a very popular stop-over for visiting yachts on passage.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The EU certainly has jursisdiction over member states' taxes, in so far as any tax levied has to be applied to nationals / EU citizens alike.Hence the aborted Greek attempt to tax only non-Greek boats, and current Italian propsals to tax all boats. True, they could hike "kurtax" rates, but would also have to apply it to nationals.

The EU is a totally toothless tiger when it comes to policing national tax policies. If a country chooses to ignore the EU, like Spain or France in the recent past, it will do so because the process of applying jurisdiction and sanctions is so long winded. I suggest that Greece rolled over on their foreign boat tax because they knew they needed an EU bail out imminently, not because they were afraid of EU sanctions

 

[Oliveoyl]

Tiger with teeth

The EU is a totally toothless tiger when it comes to policing national tax policies. If a country chooses to ignore the EU, like Spain or France in the recent past, it will do so because the process of applying jurisdiction and sanctions is so long winded. I suggest that Greece rolled over on their foreign boat tax because they knew they needed an EU bail out imminently, not because they were afraid of EU sanctions

It may be long winded, but it works. Decades ago, Belgistan applied VAT on 2nd hand car sales - ruled illegal by EU, and ordered to pay, retroactive several years. Several other tax cases (Scandic, Cobelplast....) overruled application of national tax laws. General rules of mobility require that any "extra" taxes be applied to nationals and EU citizens alike - cfr new Italian boat tax.

 

[BrianH]

I see that the new Government in Croatia is possibly going to delay the public referendum EU entry The outgoing HDZ government had put it in hand for 30 days after the general election (4 December 2011) - obviously assuming they would win. Will be interesting to see how the Croatian population vote given all the shenanigans in Brussels just now. I see Nick Farage "UKIP" has been in Croatia stirring up his brand of "EU is undemocratic" rhetoric. See Youtube.
Then it will be interesting to see how they apply VAT to foreign flagged yachts. Anyone else got any info yet?

Last Friday the Juggernaut started and it will roll on to full membership automatically in 2013 (if all other 27 members agree). All the Balkan nations seem to view EU membership as some sort of legitimacy and respectability, especially for those from the ex-Yugoslav Federation.

It would not be difficult for a government to bury a planned referendum from a previous administration - or even manipulate the popular mood to vote how it wants - especially in a country that is in an even worse financial condition than most of the EU members. On balance, membership will probably benefit Croatia more than not acceding as it will likely be a net recipient of funds, which the ruling party is well aware of.

From the Boston Globe:

BRUSSELS—Croatia on Friday signed a treaty to join the European Union in 2013, a bittersweet milestone as the bloc prepares to take on board a sluggish economy it will have to drag along at the time of its worse crisis ever.
The country of 4.2 million is dealing with unemployment at around 17 percent and a budget gap projected at 6.2 percent of gross domestic product. The newly ousted conservative government has been reluctant to undertake serious structural and fiscal reform and fully curb corruption. Its credit rating was reduced a year ago by Standard & Poor's, which cited a "deteriorated fiscal position and continuously weak" external financing.
EU president Herman Van Rompuy said Croatia will be an "active observer" in all EU forums until it becomes a full member 18 months from now. Its membership must still be ratified by the legislatures of the bloc's 27 member nations.
Croatia's entry talks lasted seven years and were held up repeatedly due to territorial disputes with neighboring Slovenia and demands that it arrest remaining war crimes suspects.
"Today Croatia is entering Europe, but more importantly Europe is entering Croatia," Croatian President Ivo Josipovic told the heads of government of all 27 members. He said Croatia's progress showed that the EU was determined to eventually accept all Balkan countries into the bloc.
Croatia will become the second nation from the former Yugoslavia to join the EU after Slovenia, which became a member in 2004. All other countries that emerged from the Yugoslav federation -- Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia, as well as neighboring Albania -- are also seeking membership.​