INEOS AC 2-0

flaming said:
Yeah, I don't like that approach.

Looking forward to watching the replays later! This is shaping up to be a very competitive challenger series.
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I don't know which series you are watching but it sounds better than the one I've seen. In my version INEOS are 4-0 down and haven't really looked like winning any of them - I think LR has lead from start to finish in every race. Perhaps not a whole lot in it but INEOS need to make a change to get into the match
 
I'm not quite sure if skipper and tactician on INEOS are hitting it off at the moment. Particularly the starts.

It would be nice if the TV could turn the sound up a bit more.
 
LONG_KEELER said:
I'm not quite sure if skipper and tactician on INEOS are hitting it off at the moment. Particularly the starts.

It would be nice if the TV could turn the sound up a bit more.
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Search YouTube for "Prada Cup Port entry" and "Prada Cup Starboard Entry". Gives complete race from stern cameras with audio stream.

E.g.
 
Mudisox said:
?????? well maybe, but I will not be holding my breath.
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bedouin said:
I don't know which series you are watching but it sounds better than the one I've seen. In my version INEOS are 4-0 down and haven't really looked like winning any of them - I think LR has lead from start to finish in every race. Perhaps not a whole lot in it but INEOS need to make a change to get into the match
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These posts really confused me, as I'm pretty sure I didn't post over the weekend...

The post you both quoted was from page 1 of this thread, and made on the 15th of January... I have absolutely no clue what prompted you both to quote it as if I just made it. At the time that INEOS were surprisingly 2-0 up in the round robins. And seems a reasonable description of events at that point. Seems a little unreasonable to expect me to have somehow foreseen INEOS going 4-0 down in the prada finals!
 
INEOS lost both the races on Sunday in the prestart. In the first they went for a hook that was never on and got buried in coffin corner. Ben should take the blame for that one, Giles was feeding him time to lay info and he still sent the boat barreling past it. In the second the control moment left them in a really bad spot and they wound up just behind and LR made the 1st cross. What followed in both races is exactly what you expect from a match race of roughly equal boats where the one in front doesn't make any major mistakes. The only difference between what we saw here and traditional match racing was that the following boat does not have the ability to steal the leader's wind on the downwind legs.
 
Laser_310 said:
why?

if you were the boat behind.., would you just follow the lead boat out to the corner?

of course not.., you'd tack.., and the lead boat would cover.., because they _can't_ let you get 1/2 mile, or whatever, of leverage..

the tacking penalty on these boats is not huge - not as big as with the cats

also.., there are the potential problems associated being too early on the layline - you get a lift.., and the boat inside you is all of a sudden laying, and sailing a shorter distance.
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But once the following boat has tacked, and is to leeward but slightly bow out neither boat has anything to gain by tacking until they get to the layline. So if you get an even start neither boat has anything to gain by tacking before the layline. Obviously the boat to windward has nothing to gain by splitting, and leeward knows that to tack and take the stern of ww will just result in them also tacking and a gain to ww as they don't have to sail through dirt.

You saw this play out exactly in race 2 on Sunday, INEOS tacks onto port so LR go with them. Without the boundary INEOS definitely would not have then tacked again until they had either gained enough to force a port/starboard or they got to the layline.
With the boundary in play we got a tacking duel. A painful one from the perspective of the Brits...
 
flaming said:
These posts really confused me, as I'm pretty sure I didn't post over the weekend...

The post you both quoted was from page 1 of this thread, and made on the 15th of January... I have absolutely no clue what prompted you both to quote it as if I just made it. At the time that INEOS were surprisingly 2-0 up in the round robins. And seems a reasonable description of events at that point. Seems a little unreasonable to expect me to have somehow foreseen INEOS going 4-0 down in the prada finals!
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Ah - it is a subspecies of the ancient resurrected thread - I didn't notice the date of the quote when responding
 
What would really suck is if the lockdown in Auckland gets extended and they are not able to sail any more races. The last reserve day for racing in the 24th of Feb, and the rules state that whoever is ahead at that point goes through, even if they haven't won 7 races. So not only do INEOS have to start winning races but they also have to hope that there are the races available to win....
 
flaming said:
What would really suck is if the lockdown in Auckland gets extended and they are not able to sail any more races. The last reserve day for racing in the 24th of Feb, and the rules state that whoever is ahead at that point goes through, even if they haven't won 7 races. So not only do INEOS have to start winning races but they also have to hope that there are the races available to win....
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Ouch.
 
flaming said:
The only difference between what we saw here and traditional match racing was that the following boat does not have the ability to steal the leader's wind on the downwind legs.
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I agree that this is an unavoidable consequence of boats for which the apparent wind is always forward.

The effect is to take away one of the few weapons that the boat behind can use to effect a pass

I know you don't agree, but as I said above, I think the narrow courses also favour the boat ahead.

It was always the case that in match racing the boat ahead had advantages that made it difficult to make a pass.., but these two changes shift the balance even more in favour of the boat ahead.

something needs to be changed to give the boat behind something to work with...

as it is now, mostly what they have is boat speed.., or the luck of random pressure variations

i think at least experimenting with wider courses wouldn't be a waste of time - we can try to guess how it would work out, but won't really know unless it gets tried. Yes, it will affect on-the-water spectators - but really.., how important are they? Anyway, they managed back when there were no boundaries.

I do not believe that this change alone has any chance of shifting the balance of power enough to make the game interesting again.., we need some creative thinking...
 
flaming said:
INEOS lost both the races on Sunday in the prestart. In the first they went for a hook that was never on and got buried in coffin corner. Ben should take the blame for that one, Giles was feeding him time to lay info and he still sent the boat barreling past it. In the second the control moment left them in a really bad spot and they wound up just behind and LR made the 1st cross. What followed in both races is exactly what you expect from a match race of roughly equal boats where the one in front doesn't make any major mistakes. The only difference between what we saw here and traditional match racing was that the following boat does not have the ability to steal the leader's wind on the downwind legs.
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What you are possibly not aware of is that INEOS was not match fit. They had serious hydrofoil control system issues on Friday which necessitated a major strip out and rebuild. The foils were not fully polished and faired for want of time.
 
matt1 said:
All a bit odd? If that were true why wouldn’t you release the information and blame it on a technical issue
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If that was the case, were I in Ben's shoes, I would be keeping that very quiet too. Partly because it would just sound like making excuses, and partly because you wouldn't want the other team to know that your boat wasn't going at full chat (let them get lulled into a false sense of security).

I guess we'll see pretty quickly the next time they're out.
 
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