INEOS AC 2-0

[crewman]

Sir Thomas Lipton used the America's Cup to push his tea brand. Even now Lipton's tea is a well known US brand (no idea who owns it now). Apart from the Grenadier does Ineos have a retail brand, most of the company products are chemicals and plastics which are bought by other industries. Do you know who made the plastic your car bumper is made from? And do you care.?

 

[Kukri]

Sir Thomas Lipton used the America's Cup to push his tea brand. Even now Lipton's tea is a well known US brand (no idea who owns it now). Apart from the Grenadier does Ineos have a retail brand, most of the company products are chemicals and plastics which are bought by other industries. Do you know who made the plastic your car bumper is made from? And do you care.?

Unilever.

It’s a story in itself. Lipton started tea growing in Ceylon, now Sri Lanka. The Americans simply did not drink tea. My American grandmother genuinely thought tea was a powerful drug and was bad for you. This attitude I am sure was carried down from the Boston Tea Party. Tommy Lipton sold tea to the United States and a hundred and twenty years later his successors are still doing so. Time for a posthumous Queen’s Award for Export Achievement!

PS. When I were a lad, Belstaff made waxed cotton motorbike waterproofs, and were definitely unfashionable!?

 

[flaming]

ACE have somewhat lobbed LR under the bus with their statement....

Fascinating stuff...

The reality is INEOS have got to win at least 2 races this weekend to keep it alive, and at least 3 if they have any pretensions of overhauling LR to be the challenger.

 

[Wansworth]

Friend who is passionate about sailing is disappointed that the AC is attracting not very nice people as it becomes more commercial

 

[Bobc]

ACE have somewhat lobbed LR under the bus with their statement....

Fascinating stuff...

The reality is INEOS have got to win at least 2 races this weekend to keep it alive, and at least 3 if they have any pretensions of overhauling LR to be the challenger.

Haven't they just. The Statement released by Ineos is nicely worded and basically says "LRPP don't care about NZ, it's people, or frankly anything other than the cup". I doubt there'll be many Kiwis wanting LRPP to win the Prada Cup now.

Indeed, the damage may go even further than just the cup. It might cause a souring of relations between NZ and Italy. Not a good look really, and I hope they come to regret it.

 

[Bobc]

Here's another interesting question for you all....

ETNZ - Emirates. It this team backed and funded by the bloke who's imprisoned his daughter (Princess Latiffa)?

 

[Wansworth]

Money doesn’t care

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I may be unpopular for this, and much as I really want Ineos to win, but I'm mainly on the Italian side. Other than the fact that when we enter races we agree to the rules, would we have be doing anything different if the boot was on the other foot? Really? And did we suggest that an extra week or two would have given the Americans a better chance at getting their boat fixed - and fixed a bit better?

 

[flaming]

Friend who is passionate about sailing is disappointed that the AC is attracting not very nice people as it becomes more commercial

I think you have to go back quite a long way before you see only nice people involved in the cup...

The first person ever to wrestle the cup away from the Americans, Alan Bond, subsequently served 4 years in jail for fraud. Just for example...

 

[Wansworth]

I think you have to go back quite a long way before you see only nice people involved in the cup...

The first person ever to wrestle the cup away from the Americans, Alan Bond, subsequently served 4 years in jail for fraud. Just for example...

Omg?

 

[flaming]

I may be unpopular for this, and much as I really want Ineos to win, but I'm mainly on the Italian side. Other than the fact that when we enter races we agree to the rules, would we have be doing anything different if the boot was on the other foot? Really? And did we suggest that an extra week or two would have given the Americans a better chance at getting their boat fixed - and fixed a bit better?

As it happens I think INEOS would grant the delay now if it was in their power.... But only because they've just agreed a reciprocal CoR deal with the Kiwis for the next cup and would want to get the benefit of any good will at the start of that relationship.

Damage to the American boat is a little different than the current situation. In reality I think ACE were quite correct to propose moving the dates, and LR well within their rights to refuse. What's wrong really is that this has played out in public with ACE seeking to blame LR for the lack of spectator experience. Having the discussion in private, then coming out and saying "we have a protocol in place to race in level 2, so that's what we're going to do" is all that really needed to happen. Hence my comment about ACE throwing LR under the bus...

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

As it happens I think INEOS would grant the delay now if it was in their power.... But only because they've just agreed a reciprocal CoR deal with the Kiwis for the next cup and would want to get the benefit of any good will at the start of that relationship.

Damage to the American boat is a little different than the current situation. In reality I think ACE were quite correct to propose moving the dates, and LR well within their rights to refuse. What's wrong really is that this has played out in public with ACE seeking to blame LR for the lack of spectator experience. Having the discussion in private, then coming out and saying "we have a protocol in place to race in level 2, so that's what we're going to do" is all that really needed to happen. Hence my comment about ACE throwing LR under the bus...

We'll have to disagree on whether or not Ineos would delay (and I meant the boot/foot thing over the whole event, not just the final).

But completely with you on NZ's approach. First humiliating the Italians with the seemingly-rushed CoR deal, and then the public kicking yesterday.

Anyway, roll on Saturday. Shifty breeze please.

 

[flaming]

Anyway, roll on Saturday. Shifty breeze please.

Looks less likely given that they've now ruled out the 2 courses close to the shore...

Just need Giles and Ben to get 2 good starts and put the pressure on, see what LR are like when on the back foot...

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Friend who is passionate about sailing is disappointed that the AC is attracting not very nice people as it becomes more commercial

Just for a minute, many thought that the Americas Cup was going mainstream. ?

Then.............. reality, money and ego's kicked in.

Still, there wouldn't be one without them. Good luck to them for that.

 

[Mudisox]

Another early morning wake up call then!

 

[Halo]

It strikes me the Italians have a faster boat after making adjustments since the first rounds and that it is now faster than the UK boat. i heard one commentator say they have a thicker section main. Are there any adjustments Ineos can make to prevent a further set of defeats ?

 

[Wansworth]

It strikes me the Italians have a faster boat after making adjustments since the first rounds and that it is now faster than the UK boat. i heard one commentator say they have a thicker section main. Are there any adjustments Ineos can make to prevent a further set of defeats ?

And more shape to the main

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Another early morning wake up call then!

Hope you enjoy it. Regrettably the gloss of the event has gone for me. I have the utmost respect for Flaming
and the other serious racers. Unfortunately the content of their posts totally misses Kukri's point about doing
the decent thing and making a good example for the sport, and more importantly young people. Being a professional racing yachtsmen must be great for some but to be a pawn in someone else's game like this for the money does not appeal.

I feel for the LR sailors on Saturday but it would be nice if just one of them walks away. I don't expect I will be the only one after this naïve flutter of interest in the AC now returns to the real world of sailing.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Hope you enjoy it. Regrettably the gloss of the event has gone for me. I have the utmost respect for Flaming
and the other serious racers. Unfortunately the content of their posts totally misses Kukri's point about doing
the decent thing and making a good example for the sport, and more importantly young people. Being a professional racing yachtsmen must be great for some but to be a pawn in someone else's game like this for the money does not appeal.

I feel for the LR sailors on Saturday but it would be nice if just one of them walks away. I don't expect I will be the only one after this naïve flutter of interest in the AC now returns to the real world of sailing.

Kukri was right, and it would be lovely if the racing could be postponed for as long as it takes, and maybe with a hold put on any practice or work in the boats to freeze the thing properly.

The snag is that an end time and date should always be in the Sailing Instructions - there is an army of unpaid (and a few paid) people peripheral to the race organisation whose lives can't be put on hold. Each team's crew and support staff will also have stuff booked to get on with come the end. House moves, weddings, 'day jobs' and in normal times holidays etc. With the AC you can add the film crews, helicopters, extra public transport all the people working in the regatta village - all to a timetable with an end and places to go on the 25th. That's probably just scratching the surface.

Having written this it occurs to me that NZ must have thought the above through. There's food for thought.

 

[Bobc]

Kukri was right, and it would be lovely if the racing could be postponed for as long as it takes, and maybe with a hold put on any practice or work in the boats to freeze the thing properly.

The snag is that an end time and date should always be in the Sailing Instructions - there is an army of unpaid (and a few paid) people peripheral to the race organisation whose lives can't be put on hold. Each team's crew and support staff will also have stuff booked to get on with come the end. House moves, weddings, 'day jobs' and in normal times holidays etc. With the AC you can add the film crews, helicopters, extra public transport all the people working in the regatta village - all to a timetable with an end and places to go on the 25th. That's probably just scratching the surface.

Having written this it occurs to me that NZ must have thought the above through. There's food for thought.

The ACE (event organisers) wanted to postpone it. Ineos wanted to postpone it. ETNZ wanted to postpone it. The NZ people wanted to postpone it.

LRPP objected to postponing it, simply (in my view) because they felt that they were on a roll, and clearly don't care about anyone or anything other than winning. Very selfish behaviour which will come back to bite them.