In praise of the Bow Thruster

[Nostrodamus]

Dacrane,
I do not ount myself as the most competent of sailors as there are those, probably like yourself, who may be able to handle a boat in most situations better than I. I don't know what size or sort of boat you have (if you could enlighten us?) or how many crew you usually have?
I have through choice a 45ft, 15 tonn boat with a sail drive a long way from the rudder that each week I sail into an unfamiliar marina or estuary, often short handed and in various conditions. In the last month I seem to have spent a lifetime in locks which I only get to see when the gates open.
I am often like a cat on a hot tin roof trying to look at the moorings I have been allocated a minute before, assesing the conditions and tides, working out which side I need my fenders and lines and not wanting to damage other boats or my own come to that. If my boat will go onto these moorings using just the sails that would be fantastic but in a marina it is dangerous and almost impossible to do but I should imagine you do it all the time? Us mere mortals tend to use that new fangled internal combustion engine as it is safer for all and easier for us. Those of us like myself that are totally incompedent sometimes also revert to using an electric motor in the form of a bow thruster for the same reasons.

 

[BrianH]

Some six years ago I was searching for a specific class of boat, a HR94, the only motor-sailor that HR ever made, and there were four for sale in Europe. One had a bow-thruster and I gave it little thought, somehow it had less appeal than those without because I felt it was an unnecessary toy that was something else to go wrong. I ended up buying one without.

The first year of trying to control my long-keeler, especially in reverse, was a nightmare after a lifetime of owning fin-keeled sailing boats - I didn't hit anything expensive but came close and suddenly I realised why that other owner had fitted a bow-thruster to a 31' craft, which I had originally thought too small for one.

I now manage my boat well enough under most circumstances. It took five years of practice and I couldn't explain what I do or how I learned - I just absorbed it osmosis-like. But I am contrite enough to have realised I should have rated the bow-thruster version higher in my purchase criteria. I now put it in the same category as my electric anchor winch, which I now have for the first time in my sailing history and with which I would hate to be without.

But if I did have and use a bow-thruster, I probably wouldn't get that enormous sense of achievement that I get now when I achieve an uneventful docking procedure - normally accomplished with no witnesses, unlike the crowd that seemed to have gathered at all those less than perfect ones.

 

[jordanbasset]

Dacrane,
I do not ount myself as the most competent of sailors as there are those, probably like yourself, who may be able to handle a boat in most situations better than I. I don't know what size or sort of boat you have (if you could enlighten us?) or how many crew you usually have?
I have through choice a 45ft, 15 tonn boat with a sail drive a long way from the rudder that each week I sail into an unfamiliar marina or estuary, often short handed and in various conditions. In the last month I seem to have spent a lifetime in locks which I only get to see when the gates open.
I am often like a cat on a hot tin roof trying to look at the moorings I have been allocated a minute before, assesing the conditions and tides, working out which side I need my fenders and lines and not wanting to damage other boats or my own come to that. If my boat will go onto these moorings using just the sails that would be fantastic but in a marina it is dangerous and almost impossible to do but I should imagine you do it all the time? Us mere mortals tend to use that new fangled internal combustion engine as it is safer for all and easier for us. Those of us like myself that are totally incompedent sometimes also revert to using an electric motor in the form of a bow thruster for the same reasons.

+1, I also assume people who argue against the need for bow thrusters also do not have engines in sailing boats. To quote Dancrane

"Some of this thread's contributors seem to object strongly, to the suggestion that tasks they presently accomplish with thrusters, were ever equally-well achieved by anyone, without them. Some angry denial of their own progressive indolence, perhaps."

Just substitute engine for bow thrusters and do we all become indolent and or incompetent.

 

[Greenheart]

Wow! So many empty beer cans lying around under my coffee table, this a.m! ...wherever did they come from?

I'm not sure what this thread's about, now, and I'm not sure I mind much, either way, but...

Out of five particularly memorable sailing trips I've made in the last three years, three were accomplished without ever starting the engine. The powers that control wind and tide blessed us, we were never struggling to cross shipping lanes or to make an up-tide berth, and of course, I avoid the nosey constriction of marina berths, from personal taste.

To be honest, on the first of these trips I attempted to start the diesel, but it disagreed, so we relied instead on skill, nerve and prayer, and found our success in those circumstances to be much more rewarding, than if I had just pushed buttons, disturbed the blissful calm, and simply expected to get wherever I steered.

So, JordanBasset, yes; ideally, I like 'going sailing' to mean exactly that, and no more.

If I treat push-button bow-thrusting diesel-happy types as less than 'proper' yachtsmen, it's for the same reason that I don't share or envy or understand the appetites and tastes satisfied by high street burger joints. Maybe the parallel is quite nicely-drawn - because whether you put half the miles under your keel using diesel, or eat half your intake in 'convenience' cafes, it's likely that speed, and lack of time in which to really appreciate your whereabouts, are the factors that determine your decisions.

The less hurry there is in sailing, the better I like it; it is after all, a leisure pursuit. I have to admit, I only discovered my preference accidentally. As an insecure pre-teen, I was obsessed with big motoryachts. Anything fast, flash and vulgarly luxurious. Awful little squirt, I must've been.

Then, somewhere along the way, I seem to have learned the marvellously healthy fulfilment, quickly discoverable from persuading any sailboat, whether a dinghy or a large yacht, to work usefully upwind or uptide or both, rather than invariably resorting to the propellor. Okay, it's not often, that one may safely sail out of a berth, but neither have I ever needed thrusters.

There's good sense in what somebody said earlier, about increasingly cramped marina berths requiring closer and closer control of the boats coming and going. My position on bow-thrusters may relate to my dislike for marinas.

Is it likely to be only chance, that the people who have bow-thrusters, seem adamant that they need them...while people like me who don't have 'em, really don't want them, either?

My girlfriend and I have bicycles. And we live on a bit of a hill. I like hills (you guessed that!) and I like the climb...so I've grown pretty good at it. My girlfriend is hopeless on hills...so she doesn't ride much...so she doesn't improve...

If I felt too feeble to dock the Hillyard-style long keeler I regularly enjoy the use of, without assistance of thrusters...well, I'd probably know how my girlfriend feels when I suggest a bike-tour.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

If I treat push-button bow-thrusting diesel-happy types as less than 'proper' yachtsmen, it's for the same reason that I don't share or envy or understand the appetites and tastes satisfied by high street burger joints. Maybe the parallel is quite nicely-drawn - because whether you put half the miles under your keel using diesel, or eat half your intake in 'convenience' cafes, it's likely that speed, and lack of time in which to really appreciate your whereabouts, are the factors that determine your decisions.

Steady on boyo.... I'm getting a bit sensitive to the parallels drawn here

 

[Ridax]

Out of five particularly memorable sailing trips I've made in the last three years, three were accomplished without ever starting the engine.

But still... You do have an engine on your boat? That just shows you have bought a boat that is too large for your skills. You should downgrade to something more appropriate for your own skills that you can handle without the need of any engine. May I suggest you to get something like this http://walkerbay.com/rigid-dinghies-sailboats/8-performance-sail-kit.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I don't think he said he owns a boat but sometimes has the use of one.
I believe he is a dinghy sailor, hence the lack of need for bow thruster!

 

[jesterchallenger]

Am I unique - am I the only person on this planet to have removed his bowthruster? My long keeled, heavy displacement boat with a large turning circle has totally unpredictable handling astern. When I bought her she was fitted with a bow thruster and once I got the hang of it, I found I could get the boat into most tight corners, forwards or backwards. But....lots of weight forward, lots of drag from the hole in the hull and lots of noise when going to windward in heavy weather. So I removed it and blanked off the tunnel and now things are quieter and faster. I can still back the boat into a berth, if it's not windy: and I have learnt to make the boat turn on its own axis, but not if its windy. However I often have to ignore directions to a berth and find one I can actually get into, and there are times when I know I can't get out until the wind abates. You can manoeuvre just about anything in any conditions with warps and an anchor, but not if you're singlehanded (as I often am). Generally harbourmasters are very helpful when you explain the limitations of singlehanding an old fashioned boat in constricted spaces. When I come to sell the boat I shall probably refit it, because a prospective purchaser will always ask "How does she go astern?" and my reply of a shrug and a knowing smile is a lot less reassuring than "Bowthruster, don't you just love 'em!".

 

[Greenheart]

Very sorry, ScottyTradewind. No offence at all intended. Junk-food was indeed a rotten comparison to make.

I think perhaps Ridax is right too, despite the smell of sarcasm wafting from his link. I didn't replace the siezed engine I removed from a very tired old twenty-footer which I still quite often use. Sailing her is a very complete experience, that would be hairy and hazardous in foul weather, and is never quick, nor is scheduling or passage planning extremely accurate.

But...twenty foot long, and no engine, and certainly no thrusters. Not a dinghy, but very basic in her equipment. Terrific fun, and I don't think my thorough fine-tuning of my own ability to move the hefty vessel using only a pole and paddle and the stumpy mast and sails, can be fairly criticised.

The bigger boat which I sometimes sail abroad (and live in hope of inheriting), has an engine so recalcitrant that my low-tech preferences are again routinely hoisted and put through their paces. That's okay by me - it keeps one on one's toes.

Surely nobody has said parking a long-keeler is easy? My point is only that once you do know how to do it, and provided you keep that ability in training, the idea of just giving-up and putting a thruster in, can't be good for one's sense of skipperhood?

I'm sorry, to risk offending, but this thread deserves clarity in the points of view voiced. I really feel that Vetus is a name like Stannah - basically, it's a company that supplies clever systems for people who can't. Does anybody who doesn't need a Stannah, use one?

Of course, if every staircase, everywhere had a stair-lift...it wouldn't be long before plenty of people whose stair-climbing practice presently makes them competent, could no longer manage it. Ditto, bow-thrusters. Get used to using them...and you'll become incapable without. Not for me, thanks.

Jesterchallenger, you're my hero!

 

[jaba]

Perhaps the honest question should be:
"On a windy day, while moored in a tight spot of an unknown marina, would you like your approaching neighbour to have a bow thruster?"

I do

(... but don't have one)

j

 

[Greenheart]

As long as the approaching neighbour had learned to park/moor/dock/manoeuvre without thrusters, I wouldn't be worried. Many gadgets represent fine safety-nets, in cases of need. I just don't think they're a sound substitute for elementary skills, practice and understanding.

A capable mature skipper who occasionally makes use of a bow-thruster, is unlikely to have utterly lost his understanding of boat-handling by more basic prop/rudder/boathook/warps. But newcomers to yachting, who've only ever learned to tweak a joystick? Suppose their thruster gets clogged by netting, as their boat edges past your hull? Is that a good time to start them off with a lesson on using the throttle, blipping deflected thrust past the angled rudder? Shouldn't the basics be essentials? I'd say so.

 

[jaba]

As long as the approaching neighbour had learned to park/moor/dock/manoeuvre without thrusters, I wouldn't be worried. Many gadgets represent fine safety-nets, in cases of need. I just don't think they're a sound substitute for elementary skills, practice and understanding.

fully agree

---
but , just in case, at a specific point in time I'd prefer to be met/approached/ by an unskilled skipper "with" bow thruster rather than "without"...

in both cases, lots of fenders required;-)
best
j

 

[Nostrodamus]

So does the same apply to a boat with a fouled prop. I suppose with a bow thruster he may be able to keep his boat off yours!

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

oh dear, this thread is getting to the position of people saying "I'm better than you because I can and I havn't got one".
Well, I think I can and I have got one!

 

[cozzykim]

I'm hesitant to dip my toes in this thread, in case I'm reviled by both sides

If I'm sailing, for instance my Dad's Centaur last week, I can come alongside the pontoon uptide and make a good job of it, I wouldn't want to be 'seen dead' using a bow thruster in those circumstances.

Sailing a fin keeler in the med, learning the technique for a stern on mooring is an absolute necessity and absolutely no need for a bow thruster.

Next week I'm aboard our share boat, 34ft mobo, single shaft drive, tiny rudder, bit of a kick going astern and berthed on a marina finger berth.
I only get to helm it once or twice a year and the bow thruster gives me that little extra bit of confidence when approaching the mooring, as well as being able to hold me against the pontoon or bank when SWMBO or daughter are faffing around instead of doing their job with the warps

I only use the thruster if necessary, and then only for a second or two, maybe two short bursts.
If that doesn't do the trick then I'll go out again and make a better job of it.
Doesn't happen often thankfully.

So, horses for courses IMO, and worthwhile if it means I don't put any scratches on mine or anyone else's boat.

 

[westernman]

When I berth in a small slot in a strong cross wind, I welcome the help I sometimes get from a bow thruster. In Spain most ports have a bow thruster.

He turns up in a blue uniform in a RIB with a fairly big outboard engine and pushes your bow against the wind.

Otherwise failing that, I use the boat parked next to my slot to thrust my bow into the right place with a few fenders to protect the paint work.

I have never notice either of these making particularly loud noises.

 

[mcframe]

But still... You do have an engine on your boat? That just shows you have bought a boat that is too large for your skills. You should downgrade to something more appropriate for your own skills that you can handle without the need of any engine. May I suggest you to get something like this http://walkerbay.com/rigid-dinghies-sailboats/8-performance-sail-kit.

Hehehe - that's my tender that is!

As used for going ashore at Priory Bay last weekend on a solo trip to meet friends for a BBQ.

OK, I used the engine on the bigger boat to set the anchor and leave/pickup my home mooring, but I did have an hour or so of engineless fun - without even using the oars ;-)

 

[cowpat]

Noisey

I've just spent 10 days on a 56 ft narrow boat with one fitted. It did a great job but I couldn't overcome the feeling that using it instead of prop and rudder was lazy.

On my own boat it would be OTT. If you can't do a manoeuvre with 2 props & rudders 17 ft apart you shouldn't be out there - that's not to say I don't cock it up from time to time.

But - WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE SO B*****Y NOISY!?

-------The above and other replies contain questions on noise.--------
(1)Their noise is relative to what other noise?
(2)Their noise is caused by cavitation. A slow running (quieter) impellor would not have enough force for the tunnle size. This needs to be kept as small as poss' so the impellor needs to turn fast. Chris.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I would imagine a bow with anchor (Rocna may deform like a crush zone) ramming the side of your boat is louder and sounds much worse than a bow thruster.

 

[boomerangben]

I am sure that psychologists would have lots to say about threads such as this. Flying forums are plagued with analogous threads as well - new technology vs old hard won skills.

As a professional pilot, GPS is a great help and makes the day a lot easier. However navigating without one is immensely satisfying.

This forum is directed at those who boat for fun. We all find our fun in different ways. If a bow thruster increases the enjoyment you get from sailing that's great. If you take joy from the fact that you manage without one, that's great too. As with all things in life though, you need to have respect for others and their property. So if you choose to leave a marina on a pre dawn tide, go easy on the joystick (or even better, leave it off if conditions allow). If on the other hand you are arriving on a crosswind, cross tide berth without a bow thruster with lots to hit on either side perhaps courtesy and good sense would demand some external assistance or an alternative berth.