In praise of brokers ?

DazzyWoo

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This weekend I am in Spain viewing a ’98 Fairline Phantom 42. I am dealing direct with the German speaking owner. He speaks conversational English. I speak no German. Conversations are undertaken using Google translate which, unsurprisingly, is quite good at conversational translations, but not so good on more technical terms.

The boat seems pretty tidy for her age. The owner has mainly been transparent and helpful. He has reams of paperwork (including receipts totalling over €30k in the last 5 years, including new turbos, new rudder and new props – more of which later) and has even taken us out for spin round the harbour. The issue is he wants me to pay for the boat today!

I am not going to do this without a full survey & sea trial. He seems to think this is utterly extraordinary behaviour, and that I am in some way being rude; besmirching him and/or his boat. He keeps asking what more I need to see. To which my reply is ‘nothing, but I am not qualified or experienced enough to make an informed decision’.

If he had been British, I would probably respond in a more Anglo-Saxon manner; but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt as:
- perhaps something is lost in translation / local practices
- I’m old enough to know there is always a possibility I am being a dick
- I am still interested in buying his boat

One interesting point the conversations have elicited is that he has changed the props. From what, to what, I do not know. From what I can surmise, I think the outcome is the boat runs a little slower. What the pros and cons of this decision are unclear to me. I’m the sort of person who thinks this sort of decision is usually best left to the manufacturer.

I can’t help feeling it would be much less stressful with a nice broker in the middle ;) .Also, I thought the broker who sold my boat (Richard at RPA) did a fab job. He sold it for more than I thought he would, tidied it up, and took some fantastic shots.

Is it THAT unusual to ask for a survey / sea trial for either German registered boats, or boats in Mallorca?
 
Tell him you don't feel qualified to assess the state of the boat and that you are interested in buying it but want a "Gutachter" to have a look at it for you.

The phrase he needs to hear is .. "Bootsgutachter & Sachverständige für Boote und Yachten". Have a look here and change the language to English ... https://www.boot-online.net/sachverstaendige/

It's the same with house purchases in Germany, even banks don't require a survey to offer you a mortgage if the property is relatively new.

PS: If he objects then walk away .... there is no reason to refuse a survey if he believes there is nothing wrong with the boat, German or not.
 
Thank you baggy

So having said I want to buy the boat, subject to seatrial and survey, the reply was

"Good luck finding the perfect boat. I have it"

I think that is German for "get knotted". I can only conclude he has something to hide, or is somewhat eccentric :confused:
 
DazzyWoo

It sounds like you are currently in Mallorca, so do yourself a huge favour and contact Nick, Charles or Peter of Boats .co .uk in Cala d’Or and get them to source a boat of your choice.
They will take all the pain away and give security and pleasure in the transaction.

I have never purchased a boat from them but we are berthed right opposite their yard operations in Cala d’Or Marina and get to see their full operations and it’s impressive.

It seems to me that all the boats sold and berthed in Cala d’Or have been supplied and sold by the Boats Uk team and I have not heard one grumble about the Company
 
Thank you baggy

So having said I want to buy the boat, subject to seatrial and survey, the reply was

"Good luck finding the perfect boat. I have it"

I think that is German for "get knotted". I can only conclude he has something to hide, or is somewhat eccentric :confused:

Maybe ask him why he's afraid of a surveyor if his boat is perfect?
 
Maybe ask him why he's afraid of a surveyor if his boat is perfect?

I have my suspicions his boat may not be as perfect as he claims :rolleyes:. I'll just have to stand in line behind the non-existent queue of people who are prepared to buy a 20 yo boat for €100k without any form of survey or sea trial. :rolleyes:
 
The boat seems pretty tidy for her age. The owner has mainly been transparent and helpful. He has reams of paperwork (including receipts totalling over €30k in the last 5 years, including new turbos, new rudder and new props – more of which later) and has even taken us out for spin round the harbour. The issue is he wants me to pay for the boat today!

I am not going to do this without a full survey & sea trial. He seems to think this is utterly extraordinary behaviour, and that I am in some way being rude; besmirching him and/or his boat. He keeps asking what more I need to see. To which my reply is ‘nothing, but I am not qualified or experienced enough to make an informed decision’.

It is of course possible that what he is asking you for is to pay a deposit prior to survey and sea trial which is perfectly normal. However, if you really think he is asking you to pay for the whole boat then run a hundred miles away. I have bought a number of used boats in Europe over the years including a couple from German sellers and they seemed to understand very well the necessity for a survey, sea trial and full document check

Yes it is always advisable to work through a trusted broker intermediary. Not only will he guide you through the process but most importantly he will hold your deposit pending the survey and seatrial and return it to you if you are not happy with the outcomes. Never ever give your deposit to a broker who is purporting to act on behalf of the seller unless you absolutely know and trust him/her. In a situation like that, appoint your own broker to act on your behalf and be the deposit holder
 
The issue is he wants me to pay for the boat today!

Are you sure he owns the boat?

I work for a German and quite understand they always know better than anyone else about everthing. Accept this is how they think and it may help.
 
It is of course possible that what he is asking you for is to pay a deposit prior to survey and sea trial which is perfectly normal.

Definitely not. I offered to pay a small deposit on condition of the boat being taken off the market. He refused point blank, and described that as like being 'on bail'.

they seemed to understand very well the necessity for a survey, sea trial and full document check

We viewed the boat, and were interested .He offered us a trip in it. I thought it was just a generous offer. He obviously thought it was a sea trial. It was never a sea trial, just a 15 min cruise round the bay, the engines were barely warmed up.

it is always advisable to work through a trusted broker intermediary. Not only will he guide you through the process but most importantly he will hold your deposit pending the survey and seatrial and return it to you

Yes, we all moan about brokers, but it is hard to deal with someone who speaks a different language and comes from a different country, with different customs. I have considered engaging Sir Ian @ MacKenzie and Ward, and have spoken to him a lot over the course of the deal - but I think I would just be throwing good money after bad, as I know longer trust the seller. E.g. He has repeatedly told me I am welcome to survey the boat, but when I had surveyor booked (I offered him 3 days, all within a week of viewing) he changed his mind.

So for the time being,I am running away. I guess either someone will turn up with a suitcase of money, in which case good luck to them, or he will need to take a reality check.
 
Are you sure he owns the boat?
- yes, he has the correct papers. They have been checked by Sir Ian.

I work for a German and quite understand they always know better than anyone else about everthing. Accept this is how they think and it may help.
- I worked for a couple of years with Deutsche Post, this guy is a bit different to my experience.
 
I have considered engaging Sir Ian @ MacKenzie and Ward, and have spoken to him a lot over the course of the deal - but I think I would just be throwing good money after bad, as I know longer trust the seller.
I have used Sir Ian myself when a seller (German actually) failed to supply the proper documents that were promised on completion of the sale. He's a good man although I can't see how he would have helped your particular situation. Looks like you were right to walk away from this one
 
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