In mast furling pros and cons

howard easton said:
Illogical. Leaving aside that there would be other differences between the two boats, you are quoting the case of one buyer who maybe wanted in mast reefing and happily ignoring other buyers who didnt offer on your boat because they werent interested in in mast reefing. I would be a case in point. I would not consider buying a boat with in mast reefing just as I wouldnt consider one with teak decks.

The responses to this thread show you a fair number of people who would not consider in mast mainsail reefing. To some degree it depends on whether you want a boat as a floating caravan or as a performance machine - to exagerrate the difference a bit!
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However, the very opposite also applies. There are clearly many people who would choose a boat with in mast - so if the boat you have for sale does not have it you have excluded all those potential purchasers. Just because you would not consider such a boat only shows your preference (or prejudice), not that of others.

Think it is you that is exaggerating. Those on this thread who have it on their boats universally prefer it. Perhaps that is telling you something much more important than those who say they don't.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It's been very informative.

ANDY123 said:
you can always cut a halyard in an emergency, where an in mast reeling system jammed up is a different matter
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I think this cuts to the chase for me. If the reefing jammed whilst trying to reef, how would you deal with it?

The extra weight aloft, sail shape etc are not big issues for me, but I would like to have a plan for a worst case scenario.
 
richardh10 said:
If the reefing jammed whilst trying to reef, how would you deal with it?

.
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Nearly all the times, the problem of jamming of an in mast furling main sail is during unfurling, not furling. So the problem will be to be out there with no sail rather than with much sail.
As, other people have mentioned, learn how to use it and you will not have any problems.

Now, what I think after using it for 7 years:
Cons - sometimes I wish I had a powerful main sail with lots of roach to play with.
Prons - well, it is quite powerful actually because as the boat was designed for in mast the boom is quite long. But appart from this when I travel with my family (meaning single handling the boat) and make these long overtime passages I NEVER hesitate to furl/unfurl the sail during the night. It's so easy to do, just like the genoa.
 
ANDY123 said:
you can always cut a halyard in an emergency, where an in mast reeling system jammed up is a different matter
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Where does a halyard jam? Not conveniently down at deck level, but more likely by jamming or jumping the sheave at the top of the mast. What are you going to do with your knife now?
 
richardh10 said:
Thanks for all the replies. It's been very informative.
I think this cuts to the chase for me. If the reefing jammed whilst trying to reef, how would you deal with it?
The extra weight aloft, sail shape etc are not big issues for me, but I would like to have a plan for a worst case scenario.
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This is what worried me. To solve it, and because I had to retrofit, I chose in-boom. This is very different to the proposal earlier "I would go for a roller boom", which is the old principle that was, in my experience, very problematical. In-boom is theoretically better than in-mast both for a "worst case scenario" and avoids weight aloft when reefed, but not without its own disadvantages - having to have the mainsail exactly head-to-wind for reefing being one, anything less and the sail drive will force the rolling luff forward to jam against the drum. Unlike a jam in an in-mast system, easily cleared but needs attention at the mast if everything is led aft, as in my case.

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Tranona said:
However, the very opposite also applies. There are clearly many people who would choose a boat with in mast - so if the boat you have for sale does not have it you have excluded all those potential purchasers. Just because you would not consider such a boat only shows your preference (or prejudice), not that of others.

Think it is you that is exaggerating. Those on this thread who have it on their boats universally prefer it. Perhaps that is telling you something much more important than those who say they don't.
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A point I didn't explain very well when talking about potential resale desirability is the fact that in-mast is becoming more and more popular, so it's likely that in say 5 years' time anyone looking to buy a recent boat will most likely demand in-mast furling. Rather like the situation some years ago with the trend towards roller foresails, which quickly became almost universal.
 
I have no experience with in-boom furling, but would agree that at first glance, it seems a good option. However, many years ago I used to have (round the boom) roller reefing, which to work well required a shaped boom, or at the very least a boom reduced in size near the gooseneck, to accommodate the buildup of bolt-rope and or slides. Obviously, in-boom furling can't have this shape, so I see problems there.
In-mast furling gets round this by having the angle between the luff and the foot less than 90º.
 
I used to condemn in mast reefing for all the reasons given, however, I now have it, for short handed cruising it's the DBs.

With a well cut vertically battened sail I don't think the performance issues are significant.

It may take me little longer to get to my destination, but when there I don't have to faff about stowing and protecting the sail.

A convert writes.
 
NormanS said:
I have no experience with in-boom furling, but would agree that at first glance, it seems a good option. However, many years ago I used to have (round the boom) roller reefing, which to work well required a shaped boom, or at the very least a boom reduced in size near the gooseneck, to accommodate the buildup of bolt-rope and or slides. Obviously, in-boom furling can't have this shape, so I see problems there.
In-mast furling gets round this by having the angle between the luff and the foot less than 90º.
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The problems you see just do not occur. I have had both and there is no comparison. In-boom also requires strict control of the mast-boom angle - mine should be 88° and is fixed so with a rigid strut. Naturally, the sail must be cut to fit the in-boom configuration but the same can be said for in-mast.

I have some considerable experience with a Jeaneau 44 and a Comet 9m with in-mast mainsail furling that gave no problems but I felt with both the batten-less mainsails did not seem very efficient but both were quite old. My in-boom mainsail has full-length battens (that stow precisely parallel to the boom when rolled) and that does drive well.

However, if I had to start all over again with a modern system (not a retro-fit) I would still seriously consider in-mast as I would think jamming is not likely to be an issue and the advantage to reef off the wind a great asset.
 
I have seen too many boats come into port with a jammed/ripped mainsail and a harrassed looking crew to be fully confident of in-mast reefing.
MD
 
mobeydick said:
I have seen too many boats come into port with a jammed/ripped mainsail and a harrassed looking crew to be fully confident of in-mast reefing.
MD
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Really? I wonder whether they were mainly inexperienced charterers, or experienced owners? People who don't follow instructions can get into tangles with any system.
 
cmedsailor said:
Nearly all the times, the problem of jamming of an in mast furling main sail is during unfurling, not furling. So the problem will be to be out there with no sail rather than with much sail.
As, other people have mentioned, learn how to use it and you will not have any problems.

Now, what I think after using it for 7 years:
Cons - sometimes I wish I had a powerful main sail with lots of roach to play with.
Prons - well, it is quite powerful actually because as the boat was designed for in mast the boom is quite long. But appart from this when I travel with my family (meaning single handling the boat) and make these long overtime passages I NEVER hesitate to furl/unfurl the sail during the night. It's so easy to do, just like the genoa.
Click to expand...

I don't have in-mast furling - my experience of boats who are designed to have it is they go perfectly well and there's virtually none of the alleged "jamming" so beloved of the nay-sayers. However when I'm shaking out a reef for the 12th time that day, I think affectionately of those in-mast, no-tweakable mains.
Winds are highly variable around Cyclades and Dodecanese.
 
On the packet 485 in mast is standard. As 50 footers go its not a colossal main but without in mast it is still going to be a challenge single handed. I have been totally problem free, and with big powered winches furling and unfurling is unbelievably quick and safe in all weathers - just what you need for short handed cruising a relatively large yacht.

There are some handling lessons to learn, especially with such powerful electric winches, but its the same for many systems. If you dont follow the correct procedure you will create a problem.
 
Another season, and our observation from the past 4-5 years remains valid - we have never ever been overtaken sailing to windward by a boat sailing with a furling mainsail, irrespective of boat size.

This year we had a great tacking battle with an Oyster 10 foot longer with immaculate laminate sails that took a bit of passing, but after an hour we had reversed a half mile deficit and they put their diesel on.
In 2013 a New Southerly, again with very expensive sails and expertly handled took some passing.

But currently a good conventional sail remains much more efficient upwind - not least due to ability to adjust cunningham tension, perhaps he most important sail control upwind
 
I've had both, and on my current boat have slab reefing... that's a choice as we plan long distance cruising, and for that, I prefer the simplicity of slab reefing maintenance. However, were I to buy another boat for coastal cruising, i'd go for in-mast every time.

Modern sail materials have resulted in in-mast sails that have excellent shape, and the days of the flat 'sheet' are gone.

When I did have in-mast, I did once have the clew rip out... the equivalent of a jam in impact I guess... I simply rolled the sail from the clew up to the mast, and lashed it up... no need to climb the mast to cut a jammed halyard... and also, when caught out downwind another time with a rising gale, a big sea, and too much sail up, was able to just take the pressure off the sail by heading up slightly, and was then able to reef the sail quite effectively.... it would have required a fairly scary rounding up head to wind with a slab system..... swings and roundabouts....

I do think, that with an in-mast system, we used the sails more.... for those, 'is it worth it for 10 minutes' decisions, an in-mast made it so quick and easy, that it was!
 
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The previous owner of my boat was getting a bit long in the tooth and retro fitted an in-boom system by Elvestrom to replace the slab reefing. Boats 38ft. I think it is the same as the John mast hi low reefer. It seems quite a good system once you suss the correct angle for the boom to furl the fully battened sail. Great reefed shape.
I brought the boat back to the UK from Portugal with the in-boom though elected to put the original boom with slab reefing back on after a season in the Solent as it gave us a touch more sail area and swmbo is a dab hand at the mast!
I really should put the boom and sail on eBay and get some space back in the garage!
 
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