In mast furling. Desirable?

[Tranona]

well.., i did start with "for me..."

On big boats I think it's fine - I just remembered another boat I sailed on that had in mast furling- an Oyster 625 that I sailed about 1800nm on. It worked great, and definitely made night watches in squally tropical waters easy. We did not go head to wind to reef on that boat either, but either the reefing was hydraulic or led to an electric winch - i can't remember. Of course, that can lead to big problems.., but it didn't in this case.

Again.., for me.., there is also the aesthetic aspect; gazing up at a well built sail, with a beautiful shape, that is perfectly trimmed for the conditions, and doing its job with splendid efficiency, is one of the joys of sailing.

Anyway, I will also mention that I think many boats don't do slab reefing as easily as they might. Many boats are rigged for single-line reefing, when having two lines would be much easier. The single line setup often develops a lot of friction as one approaches the final trim position, and often ends up with not enough tension on the clew, making the foot too loose and the sail more powerful than is needed, and not as close-winded as might be desired. It's also just harder to grind the winch, and if using the electric winch you might break something before getting the proper tension.

It's just easier to have separate lines for the clew and tack. Many bigger boats and race boats just have a short strop on the mast that gets attached to a loop on the sail at the new tack position. On my boat, I don't have strops, so I just run up and move the cunningham (which is led aft) to the new tack.

The advantage is there is very little load on the reef line that leads to the clew, it doesn't bind up when the new tack is at the boom, and I can easily get the foot of the sail as flat as I need it. De-powering is the reason we reef in the first place, but I often see people sailing with reefed mains that are way too loose on the foot.

I really enjoy it when people rubbish things like in mast and then promptly write reams about how complicated and inefficient the things they prefer, in this case slab reefing actually are. So if I get this right to make a system that only gives you 3 or maybe 4 pre determined mainsail areas you need to double the number of lenis, blocks, organisers and clutches. Even then you can in most cases only deal with 2 reefs without going to the mast to reeve the lines for the third reef. Then you talk about more bits of string for a cunningham and strops to hold the tack down and the difficulty of getting proper foot tension (more bits of string, blocks and jammers). Is it any wonder that more and more people, most of whom have experienced such systems deliberately choose in mast when all this is achieved by adjusting two lines from the cockpit. If you get a sail made by somebody who understands these things you get a perfectly trimmed sail of the correct area to suit the conditions. with a fraction of the effort. Surely a sign of efficiency?

Size of boat really is irrelevant - the choice depends on your understanding of the properties of competing systems and choosing the one that suits your intended use.

 

[Star-Lord]

I heard somewhere..., that on their round the world rallys, Oyster has had to do many rig repairs for damage caused by powered winches.

Interesting!! Sometimes it’s easier to sweat!! When I got my first sail boat I asked a rigger, the late Mike Stevens, to fit an electric winch and he advised against it for the reasons I gave. If you are aware of the problems when hoisting the main you will be okay, if you go slow!! Electric winches for the Genoa sounds like a recipe for disaster!!

 

[Supertramp]

I really enjoy it when people rubbish things like in mast and then promptly write reams about how complicated and inefficient the things they prefer, in this case slab reefing actually are. So if I get this right to make a system that only gives you 3 or maybe 4 pre determined mainsail areas you need to double the number of lenis, blocks, organisers and clutches. Even then you can in most cases only deal with 2 reefs without going to the mast to reeve the lines for the third reef. Then you talk about more bits of string for a cunningham and strops to hold the tack down and the difficulty of getting proper foot tension (more bits of string, blocks and jammers). Is it any wonder that more and more people, most of whom have experienced such systems deliberately choose in mast when all this is achieved by adjusting two lines from the cockpit. If you get a sail made by somebody who understands these things you get a perfectly trimmed sail of the correct area to suit the conditions. with a fraction of the effort. Surely a sign of efficiency?

Size of boat really is irrelevant - the choice depends on your understanding of the properties of competing systems and choosing the one that suits your intended use.

I agree - as would many singlehanders who have tried to run a 3rd reef line to the clew when you should already have reefed!

 

[Laser310]

I said.., talking about in mast furling:

"It worked great, and definitely made night watches in squally tropical waters easy."

and then you said:

I really enjoy it when people rubbish things like in mast

did you read my post?

 

[Roberto]

Fwiw, out of curiosity I had a casual look around here, in boats say 10 to 15m loa furling mainsails can be seen in maybe one boat out of ten, basically none if under 10m; maybe they haven't seen the light yet

 

[ashtead]

For boats under 10m rather depends on age but disregarding elderly vessels it might be because when buying new it adds a premium to price as another factory fitted option so if you are a younger sailor buying their first 10m boat and presumably in a better state of fitness/flexibility you might dispense with this upgrade . Also it might be your experience of in mast is on charter boats in med with Sunsail etc where perhaps you have encountered issues not having the expertise and learning of the greybeards on this forum. Personally I can manage a stack pack at 12.8 m but if I was lucky enough to find an oyster 46 say or a hylas with in mast it won’t put me off . Clearly also most Hallbergs come with in mast so buying say a 43ft without might be a challenge -it’s rather like trying to buy a manual gearbox Volvo estate I guess it that most owners of HR expect in mast. Even mass market boats tend to be in mast unless say you opt for a more sporty type say a Dehler etc or Grand Soleil . While a current fan of stay pack if I was in my 70s say or buying a larger boat at say 15m then I would fall in line and have to learn how not to jamb it etc .

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I like the idea of sailing more if you are in-mast.

I recently saw a 60' plus Oyster with a stack pack main .