In a Quandry

[derekbland]

So if all goes well tomorrow on a survey/sea trial or well'ish, I may be proceeding with a purchase. Thing is, she is likely to need the engines serviced and needs anti-fouling and the offer reflects this. The question is this, do I pay for her to come out, get everything done now, full service and scrape back and anti-foul as well as cut (think cut or cut back is the right term) and polished and then hope she will last through the rest of this season and next apart from having her bum washed? Or, do I just get the engines serviced and leave the anti-fouling and polish until next season.

I understand that she has done few hours since last service and may not need too much doing. I am aware from previous posts re problems with boats sitting around and so just looking for opinions on the questions above.

 

[jrudge]

Only you have seen it to know how “bad “ it is.

The season is upon us and all things being equal I would do the minimum and enjoy it and do all the work over winter.

Had you asked 2 months ago I would have said do it all now.

 

[derekbland]

Only you have seen it to know how “bad “ it is.

The season is upon us and all things being equal I would do the minimum and enjoy it and do all the work over winter.

Had you asked 2 months ago I would have said do it all now.

Cheers, that is the way I am leaning especially as the earliest I will be able to use her is end of first week of July.

 

[hg2016]

Cheers, that is the way I am leaning especially as the earliest I will be able to use her is end of first week of July.

I would have the engine and outdrive serviced (if it is on outdrives). These are very expensive bits of kit if they go wrong and you would be kicking yourself if that happened. If its out of the water having this done then its sensible to do the lot. I think there is a good spell of weather coming and a little bit of love now will make you sleep and cruise much better.
Its just my opinion though and its what I done a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm sure there will be loads of things that pop up after a survey.
And then more if you go into the season with her.
So, taking jrudge's comment, I wouldn't set your mind on doing too much right now.
If you go ahead, use her for the summer and make a big list for the winter months.
Maybe service the engines - depends on what you find.

 

[derekbland]

I would have the engine and outdrive serviced (if it is on outdrives). These are very expensive bits of kit if they go wrong and you would be kicking yourself if that happened. If its out of the water having this done then its sensible to do the lot. I think there is a good spell of weather coming and a little bit of love now will make you sleep and cruise much better.
Its just my opinion though and its what I done a couple of weeks ago.

Valid points and as you and Hurricane say, it depends on what comes out of the survey, how many red, amber and green issues are identified. Btw it's shaft drives.

I am getting an engineer on board for the sea trial and so if there is anything needs doing I'm hoping he finds it. I think I am most likely to do as suggested, get the engines serviced and then make it all shiny for next season along with all the other bits that you mention are likely to crop up. One thing I am concerned about is the state of the fuel and if it does need polishing, one person said the tanks are really difficult to get to but wasn't sure. I shall have a looked tomorrow.

 

[jrudge]

Fuel polishing is almost as legendary as vat !

 

[hg2016]

Fuel polishing is almost as legendary as vat !

Fuel Polishing ? Ineed help with that one.

 

[Rocksteadee]

Ooh, what you getting?
If you say that the engines have done few hours for peace of mind you get get an oil analysis done £60 each and change the engine anodes as they will still corrode even when not being used.
Get the bottom washed and see the condition of anti foul. If it needs scraping that means there is still some on there
If you get the super stripucture polished now you would be looking at doing it again next season.
If oil is ok I would just use her for the season

 

[nicho]

Fuel Polishing ? Ineed help with that one.

Filtering the fuel in the tank to remove any crud/diesel bug.

 

[kashurst]

If the boat has not had a lot of use for a few years, best thing to do with the existing fuel is use it up (chuck in some diesel bug medicine and fuel-set as insurance, run the tanks low and then half fill it so it can all slosh about - give it a really good dose of fuel set, in case there is any water in there. The fuel set will cause any water to mix in with the fuel and it will just get burnt off through the engine. Keep a close eye on the water separators and the primary fuel filters for water and/or diesel bug. If you get a bit of either don't panic usually easy to sort out. Ask your engineer on the survey/sea trial to check them after the sea trial if that's OK with the owner.

 

[hg2016]

Filtering the fuel in the tank to remove any crud/diesel bug.

Thanks. Interesting, have never even considered that. Always lots to learn in the boating world. Without stealing 'derekblands' thread, briefly,What are the signs if this becomes an issuue

 

[kashurst]

water in the fuel will show up in the bottom of the water separator in the primary Racor or Separ filter assembly - After a run, leave the boat overnight and any water in the fuel will settle out and sink to the bottom of the bowl. if you have clear plastic bowls you will be able to see it at the bottom of the bowl. If you have metal bowls you can't see so in either case, open the drain tap very slowly and drain off @ half a cup full into a clear plastic container - ideally with a screw on top. Don't shake it!
If there is water it will be either a clear liquid or more likely a brownish liquid, that is very fluid and looks like its trying to form small balls in the bottom of the container. Water and diesel don't readily mix if left alone.
The upper level of diesel should be either golden yellow colour or reddish colour in the UK and very clear to look through in good light.
Now if you give it a really good shake - the liquids will mix and the mixture will be diesel coloured but hazy to look through. Again leave it overnight and it will settle back out. If you find any small evidence of water try fuel-set as it makes the water mix with the diesel and it gets burnt in the engine. If you get lots of water, its tank flushing/draining time. Either way check the seals on your fuel fillers and tank breather set up.

diesel bug will collect on your paper fuel filter cartridges - its surprising how much junk comes through, rust, sand, bits of tissue paper etc that is from the fuel tanks on shore. Bug has many forms but look for either black gunge (sorry no polite way to say this it's like black snot) - sticky and draped across the folds in the paper filter, or coffee coloured lumps or strings again on the filter - you may find it in the water separator bowl as well - its kind of wispy. There are bacterial diesel "bug" and fungal "bug". Friend had a terrific case of flourescent green "jelly like bug" - although I think that's a med thing. If you find diesel bug or if you aren't 100% sure try marine 16 or grotomar to kill it. Buy 6 spare fuel filters - it will take a while to get rid of it. I always dose up before winter, but don't bother in periods of frequent use.

If you buy a boat that has stood idle for many years (like I did) the bug can form quite large (cm size) jelly like lumps that will clog the spinner in the fuel/water separator. If you have Racor filters consider taking out the metal anti-run back ball until things clear up. When I bought my current boat last year, I gave it a massive dose of Grotomar over winter (kill any bugs/fungus) with fuel-set thereafter to mop up any small amounts of water. Last summer got quite a bit of gunge and crap in the filters, so far this year fingers crossed looking very clear again.

 

[hg2016]

water in the fuel will show up in the bottom of the water separator in the primary Racor or Separ filter assembly - After a run, leave the boat overnight and any water in the fuel will settle out and sink to the bottom of the bowl. if you have clear plastic bowls you will be able to see it at the bottom of the bowl. If you have metal bowls you can't see so in either case, open the drain tap very slowly and drain off @ half a cup full into a clear plastic container - ideally with a screw on top. Don't shake it!
If there is water it will be either a clear liquid or more likely a brownish liquid, that is very fluid and looks like its trying to form small balls in the bottom of the container. Water and diesel don't readily mix if left alone.
The upper level of diesel should be either golden yellow colour or reddish colour in the UK and very clear to look through in good light.
Now if you give it a really good shake - the liquids will mix and the mixture will be diesel coloured but hazy to look through. Again leave it overnight and it will settle back out. If you find any small evidence of water try fuel-set as it makes the water mix with the diesel and it gets burnt in the engine. If you get lots of water, its tank flushing/draining time. Either way check the seals on your fuel fillers and tank breather set up.

diesel bug will collect on your paper fuel filter cartridges - its surprising how much junk comes through, rust, sand, bits of tissue paper etc that is from the fuel tanks on shore. Bug has many forms but look for either black gunge (sorry no polite way to say this it's like black snot) - sticky and draped across the folds in the paper filter, or coffee coloured lumps or strings again on the filter - you may find it in the water separator bowl as well - its kind of wispy. There are bacterial diesel "bug" and fungal "bug". Friend had a terrific case of flourescent green "jelly like bug" - although I think that's a med thing. If you find diesel bug or if you aren't 100% sure try marine 16 or grotomar to kill it. Buy 6 spare fuel filters - it will take a while to get rid of it. I always dose up before winter, but don't bother in periods of frequent use.

If you buy a boat that has stood idle for many years (like I did) the bug can form quite large (cm size) jelly like lumps that will clog the spinner in the fuel/water separator. If you have Racor filters consider taking out the metal anti-run back ball until things clear up. When I bought my current boat last year, I gave it a massive dose of Grotomar over winter (kill any bugs/fungus) with fuel-set thereafter to mop up any small amounts of water. Last summer got quite a bit of gunge and crap in the filters, so far this year fingers crossed looking very clear again.

Now thats a 'post' Kasahurst. Printed and filed. Thanks for that.

 

[Hurricane]

If the boat has not had a lot of use for a few years, best thing to do with the existing fuel is use it up (chuck in some diesel bug medicine and fuel-set as insurance, run the tanks low and then half fill it so it can all slosh about - give it a really good dose of fuel set, in case there is any water in there. The fuel set will cause any water to mix in with the fuel and it will just get burnt off through the engine. Keep a close eye on the water separators and the primary fuel filters for water and/or diesel bug. If you get a bit of either don't panic usually easy to sort out. Ask your engineer on the survey/sea trial to check them after the sea trial if that's OK with the owner.

Not convinced about Fuel Set - I see your point but in this case, if there IS bug present, I would kill it.
There are two ways to deal with the bug - your way removes water so the the bug can't grow and flushes the water out during use.
The other way kills any bug that is there.
We have had a case of the bug and killing it really worked.
I did a test - I was able to get the sludgy stuff out of the bottom of the tank into a one of those big fresh water containers.
Then I added a small dose of bug killer into the container - left it overnight and the fuel in the water container was clear.
Bug killer is a biocide by any other name.
I used Marine 16 - not expensive - we got the bug in 2011 and I've been dosing my fuel ever since.

@ derekbland
Are you just worrying about the fuel?
Do you have any information that there is bug in the fuel or just worried because you have heard of the problem.
From what you have told me in an email, it is very likely that the boat has been using old Red Diesel.
If that is the case, there will be a high sulphur level which, IMO, the bug doesn't like.
It is us Med boaters who have to use ULSD who have the problem.
If there is no history and you are worried, stick a strong mix of Marine 16 in with a little extra fresh fuel (say 50 to 100 litres in each side).
The Marine 16 will mix and kill any bug that it there.
Changing the pre filters (Racor or Separ - whatever is fitted) would be a good idea.
I definitely wouldn't polish the fuel.

If they haven't mentioned bad fuel, don't worry yourself unnecessarily.

EDIT
Grotomar is a more expensive version of Marine 16.
Either will do - both are bug killers rather than emulsifiers.

 

[SEARANGER ANCASTER]

Questions that cant really be answered full and proper survey done surely ? If there is an issue with fuel then I would be wanting this rectified before I made any purchase personally. Otherwise , If antifoul and anodes are fine , then use it for whats left of the season and haul it out and do everything to your spec for next year would be my line of thinking. From experience , I would be wary of a boat thats been sitting around for a while though as they NEED to be used to avoid any issues.

 

[derekbland]

Not convinced about Fuel Set - I see your point but in this case, if there IS bug present, I would kill it.
There are two ways to deal with the bug - your way removes water so the the bug can't grow and flushes the water out during use.
The other way kills any bug that is there.
We have had a case of the bug and killing it really worked.
I did a test - I was able to get the sludgy stuff out of the bottom of the tank into a one of those big fresh water containers.
Then I added a small dose of bug killer into the container - left it overnight and the fuel in the water container was clear.
Bug killer is a biocide by any other name.
I used Marine 16 - not expensive - we got the bug in 2011 and I've been dosing my fuel ever since.

@ derekbland
Are you just worrying about the fuel?
Do you have any information that there is bug in the fuel or just worried because you have heard of the problem.
From what you have told me in an email, it is very likely that the boat has been using old Red Diesel.
If that is the case, there will be a high sulphur level which, IMO, the bug doesn't like.
It is us Med boaters who have to use ULSD who have the problem.
If there is no history and you are worried, stick a strong mix of Marine 16 in with a little extra fresh fuel (say 50 to 100 litres in each side).
The Marine 16 will mix and kill any bug that it there.
Changing the pre filters (Racor or Separ - whatever is fitted) would be a good idea.
I definitely wouldn't polish the fuel.

If they haven't mentioned bad fuel, don't worry yourself unnecessarily.

EDIT
Grotomar is a more expensive version of Marine 16.
Either will do - both are bug killers rather than emulsifiers.

Thank you. Tanks all cleaned 3 years ago and fuel seems in good order.

 

[SEARANGER ANCASTER]

Thank you. Tanks all cleaned 3 years ago and fuel seems in good order.

Outside or inside ??

 

[derekbland]

Inside. You can only get to about 15% - pure guess of the outside.

 

[petem]

Derek, good housekeeping would be to check the 'o' rings on your filler caps (fuel and water). Make sure they're not missing / broken and give them a good smear with vaseline.