lw395
Well-Known Member
Like you, I think they are well over-rated for dousing a kite, but I think they make hoisting significantly easier/less fraught sometimes.
I used the term 'asy' to include 'cruising chute'.
In a flap about downwind sails!
- Thread starter bdh198
- Start date
Like you, I think they are well over-rated for dousing a kite, but I think they make hoisting significantly easier/less fraught sometimes.
I used the term 'asy' to include 'cruising chute'.
bdh198
Well-Known Member
Thank for all the replies and comments.
It was a bit overwhelming at the show being giving conflicting advice by all the sail makers as to what we should priorities for a downwind sail. It is helpful to get feedback from others who have first-hand experience at balancing the desire for the best performance while keeping the costs as reasonable as possible.
At the moment there are two price brackets I'm looking at. The lower price option is between compromising on the tri-radial and going for a radial head only but with a Karver furler, or for a similar price get a tri-radial or full radial with a snuffer. On the one hand we want a sail that has as many options downwind as possible, but on the other a furler is attractive because of it’s easy of use. This option is in the region of £2,500.
However, if we decide we can afford to spend a little more then the options seem to be between a full radial with a Selden furler or for £60 more a full radial with a Karver furler (everyone seems to say the Karver is better and has a useful locking system to ensure it can only furl one way and thereby not suddently unfurl half way through if there is a sudden gust of wind). This option is in the region of £3,100.
I think spending money on the more expensive nylon isn’t really necessary for our situation.
It was a bit overwhelming at the show being giving conflicting advice by all the sail makers as to what we should priorities for a downwind sail. It is helpful to get feedback from others who have first-hand experience at balancing the desire for the best performance while keeping the costs as reasonable as possible.
At the moment there are two price brackets I'm looking at. The lower price option is between compromising on the tri-radial and going for a radial head only but with a Karver furler, or for a similar price get a tri-radial or full radial with a snuffer. On the one hand we want a sail that has as many options downwind as possible, but on the other a furler is attractive because of it’s easy of use. This option is in the region of £2,500.
However, if we decide we can afford to spend a little more then the options seem to be between a full radial with a Selden furler or for £60 more a full radial with a Karver furler (everyone seems to say the Karver is better and has a useful locking system to ensure it can only furl one way and thereby not suddently unfurl half way through if there is a sudden gust of wind). This option is in the region of £3,100.
I think spending money on the more expensive nylon isn’t really necessary for our situation.
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Ian_Edwards
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Sorry about coming a bit late on this thread. But here's my experience so far.
When I bought my current boat it came with two downwind sails, an asymmetric (about 2,000sq ft) and a Gennaker (flatter cut and about 1,500sq ft). The larger sail came with a snuffer and the smaller sail with a furler and a torque rope sown into the luff.
I found the snuffer very difficult to use and quickly gave up, the furler was kind of OK, but the sail tended to "bag" near the top of the luff when furling in a breeze. The bag would then flog around until I got the sail down.
Last winter I converted both sails to top down furlers. I got the sail maker to make two torque ropes and bought one Karver furling system, I simple transfer the furler between the two sails.
This has transformed the way in which I use the sails, after loading the sails onto the torque ropes they simple figure of eight into the bag. They are easy to hoist and I sometimes hoist them before leaving the mooring. But perhaps more importantly, I can be sure that I can furl the sails if the wind pipes up and know that I can leave them furled and rigged until I have the time and space to take them down safely.
So if you haven't looked at it already, I'd suggest you look at a top down furling system.
Both sails are standard rip-stop nylon and I wouldn't think that a more expensive cloth will make much difference.
Dead downwind the smaller flatter sail is more stable and will set "wing on wing " without a pole. However, it is quite sensitive to the angle the boom is eased out to, so I play around with the main sheet until the Gennaker is stable.
The bigger sail is great on a broad reach, but soon overpowers the boat if the wind gets up a bit or I try and sail closer to the wind. The asymmetric will set to about 60 deg apparent in light winds and is, in my view a better all-round sail.
Despite the size of the sails I can set them both single-handed, providing I have enough space and the wind isn't too strong.
Sorry about coming a bit late on this thread. But here's my experience so far.
When I bought my current boat it came with two downwind sails, an asymmetric (about 2,000sq ft) and a Gennaker (flatter cut and about 1,500sq ft). The larger sail came with a snuffer and the smaller sail with a furler and a torque rope sown into the luff.
I found the snuffer very difficult to use and quickly gave up, the furler was kind of OK, but the sail tended to "bag" near the top of the luff when furling in a breeze. The bag would then flog around until I got the sail down.
Last winter I converted both sails to top down furlers. I got the sail maker to make two torque ropes and bought one Karver furling system, I simple transfer the furler between the two sails.
This has transformed the way in which I use the sails, after loading the sails onto the torque ropes they simple figure of eight into the bag. They are easy to hoist and I sometimes hoist them before leaving the mooring. But perhaps more importantly, I can be sure that I can furl the sails if the wind pipes up and know that I can leave them furled and rigged until I have the time and space to take them down safely.
So if you haven't looked at it already, I'd suggest you look at a top down furling system.
Both sails are standard rip-stop nylon and I wouldn't think that a more expensive cloth will make much difference.
Dead downwind the smaller flatter sail is more stable and will set "wing on wing " without a pole. However, it is quite sensitive to the angle the boom is eased out to, so I play around with the main sheet until the Gennaker is stable.
The bigger sail is great on a broad reach, but soon overpowers the boat if the wind gets up a bit or I try and sail closer to the wind. The asymmetric will set to about 60 deg apparent in light winds and is, in my view a better all-round sail.
Despite the size of the sails I can set them both single-handed, providing I have enough space and the wind isn't too strong.
Javelin
Well-Known Member
Checking my log over the last season and a bit,
80% of it short handed or on my own.
90% of it passage making
20% upwind
40% close to beam reach
40% Downwind (below beam reach)
Of the downwind hours sailed,
18 hrs with our big Symmetric spinnaker (5 hrs just spinny, main down)
10 hrs boomed out genoa
7 hrs motoring (no wind)
7 hrs with our reaching/high wind spinnaker
3 hrs with a cruising chute
2 hrs two jibs, main down.
Might be a useful analysis to check your own sailing and see what would be most cost effective.
80% of it short handed or on my own.
90% of it passage making
20% upwind
40% close to beam reach
40% Downwind (below beam reach)
Of the downwind hours sailed,
18 hrs with our big Symmetric spinnaker (5 hrs just spinny, main down)
10 hrs boomed out genoa
7 hrs motoring (no wind)
7 hrs with our reaching/high wind spinnaker
3 hrs with a cruising chute
2 hrs two jibs, main down.
Might be a useful analysis to check your own sailing and see what would be most cost effective.
Fourbees
Well-Known Member
I think the chute would be OK without the main, but we've always had the main up before deploying it (centred if necessary, if otherwise it would block the chute's airflow if close to dead downwind). We sometimes run downwind with just the genoa (main down) and see lots of people doing this - no risk of accidental gybing.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I recall a similar discussion a while ago and the conclusion was that, if you haven't got one, the money would be better spent on a feathering prop than downwind sails. A Brunton autoprop, in particular would improve performance over the whole spectrum of use, while you're unlikely to use a downwind sail very often, especially short handed.
When I'm less than about 40 deg off dead downwind, I go goosewinged, with the main opposite the wind and the genny poled out to "windward". Last Sunday I had that setup for a couple of hours with the tiller pilot doing the hard work, enjoying the sail and drinking tea.
When I'm less than about 40 deg off dead downwind, I go goosewinged, with the main opposite the wind and the genny poled out to "windward". Last Sunday I had that setup for a couple of hours with the tiller pilot doing the hard work, enjoying the sail and drinking tea.
