I'm thinking of buying a catamaran??

[Tranona]

All multis get at least a certain amount of disapproval here. The preferred answer for ‘what boat’ is probably something like a Contessa 33. Nowt wrong with them, but people should probably take a broader outlook. It’s 2023, not 1973.

It is not an anti multihull bias, just a reflection of the type of boats that are available if one tries to pitch them against something like a Najad in terms of design and quality for a modest size cruising boat. Prouts and subsequently Bluewater tried to occupy this space but never gained real traction. The real growth is in the charter market where the benefits of a large platform in terms of space and berths at relatively modest cost makes sense. w\hile many use them as liveaboards they are not in the same league as their monohull competitirs from the upper end of the production boat market.

 

[alohrisch]

Mumby Cats are worth a look. Made for sailors rather than charterers if you are disappointed with the production brands. There are not many of them though in comparison.

 

[Bajansailor]

We're thinking of buying a cat. We're currently semi-liveaboards on a Najad 400. We think a cat might be more comfortable for longer spells aboard. We've sailed on Fontaine Pagiot's a Lagoons and were very dissapointed. What used cat should we consider and why?

Are you at liberty to disclose what your budget will be for purchasing a cat?
Could it stretch to building a new boat to your specifications?

Like @Chiara’s slave above, I have a soft spot for Richard Woods designs - Sailing Catamarans - Home

And Dazcats - Dazcat Catamaran Range - The Multihull Centre The Multihull Centre

Oh, and I must admit to liking the older Outremers.... this one looks nice (I have no connection to her) - 2000 Outremer 50L Multi-Hull for sale - YachtWorld

John Shuttleworth and Chris White designs are mentioned in this thread in the Liveaboard Forum -
Anyone have opinions on Shuttleworth -vs Chris White catamarans?

 

[Neeves]

Check Schionning cats, usually built as 'one offs' but by professional builders. We owned our Lightwave for over 20 years. Seawinds and Lightwaves have sailed round the world, as have many cats.

Cats really don't sail to windward too well. If you are sailing a mono to windward you can hand steer for the waves, that skill have less value when you have 2 hulls, your can steer one hull for the seas - but not both.

So...if you are prepared to be patient - you don't need to sail to windward - and averaging 10 knots over 100nm (38' cat) and having breakfast in the saloon without losing the coffee pot is possible.

Of course if you like sailing hard to windward in 35 knots - you will not like a cat.

Jonathan

 

[ridgy]

There is a rather georgeous young lady sailing one SH who posts on you tube. Has quite a following. Not sure if it is because of the Warram though

Possibly her habit of being naked on deck. So I've heard.

 

[dunedin]

Possibly her habit of being naked on deck. So I've heard.

Wasn’t that part of James Wharram’s original marketing strategies (long before YouTube). I suspect that his brace of young ladies who he photographed on board nude and published in books got more attention to his brand than the boats themselves

 

[Neeves]

Wasn’t that part of James Wharram’s original marketing strategies (long before YouTube). I suspect that his brace of young ladies who he photographed on board nude and published in books got more attention to his brand than the boats themselves

Anything that draws attention to a brand is one route to marketing success, just think of some, or one, of the best known brands in the marine industry.

It works both ways - the bendy shank saga put Rocna on the map (anyone talk now about Supreme?) - so much so that some bright spark had a pornographic site and, at the time, if you were to Google 'Rocna' and you had a bevy of naked women.

Jonathan

 

[penfold]

You can google more or less anything and do that; the achievement is to google something and not end up with it.

 

[Daydream believer]

Possibly her habit of being naked on deck. So I've heard.

And nice with it as well
Lot to be said for being single handed

 

[geem]

Lagoons seem to get a bad press on here but I've seen dozens and dozens passing through the Canary Islands, Windies, Panama and across the Pacific. Seems to suit so many liveaboards.

Dunno what exactly FP you sailed. I took an older one from St Lucia to Croatia. Wouldn't want to live on one. Have lived aboard so got an idea. New style look nice though bit boxy like all modern production cats, roomy but not for those in a rush.

Simply thoughts.....

I have two set of friends here in the Caribbean with Lagoons. The old 38 was a simple boat. If you look after them well, they are ok. They do suffer from windows popping out like all Lagoons. Build quality is not great. The 38 is a simple boat.

. As you get bigger, they seem to get worse. One guy is rigger. Now retired. He has a 410. He says it's a piece of crap! He accepts it for what it is. He doesn't go far in it now, mainly between the French Islands and Antigua. In his professional opinion, they are not an ocean boats. He has seen too many failures. He is also French and happy to dis French boats. The list of stuff that had failed on his boat was long.
You get what you pay for

 

[geem]

We're thinking of buying a cat. We're currently semi-liveaboards on a Najad 400. We think a cat might be more comfortable for longer spells aboard. We've sailed on Fontaine Pagiot's a Lagoons and were very dissapointed. What used cat should we consider and why?

We have friends here in Grenada with a 3 year old Nauticat 40 open. He has been quite honest about its shortcomings. He has owned it for two years having come from a mono and says he isn't in love with the boat.
The accommodation in the cockpit it fantastic in hot weather. The indoor bit of the saloon is small. The accommodation below is small.
We raced them from Tyrell Bay, .Carriacou to the South Coast of Grenada. About 36nm. Our heavy monohull blew then away to windward in 12kts apparent. We were several miles ahead when they threw the towel in. Their leeway was impressive. Huge. They tacked several times and ended up in almost the same spot. The Nauticat 40 open is at the sportier end of catamaran market. I would hate to think what some of the tubbier cats would perform like.
Most tubby cats simply motor to weather because they don't sail well. If you are happy with a motorsailor then a cat might be for you. If you want performance then you need to look at the like of Outremer with daggerboards.

 

[Kelpie]

If you want performance then you need to look at the like of Outremer with daggerboards.

At what point does performance start to bring the risk of capsize? It was an Outremer which got flipped in a gust last year in Croatia. I believe the mainsheet didn't get released.
It's far from my area of expertise but I understand that the better performing cats have to be sailed within the specified power range- i.e. the manufacturer will recommend a certain sail plan for a certain wind speed. And if you can't or don't follow that, trouble may follow.
Not really my idea of fun.

 

[capnsensible]

A long gone prolific poster on here owned a Privilege 495. He had great fun sailing her fast across the Atlantic and around the world once.

Was also a great party boat, the cockpit disco glitter ball was always a talking point.

 

[Trident]

It really depends on your budget and if you want new or used.

Outremer are great but have a 4 year waiting list so second hand stuff is selling for more than new just to jump the queue
HH are fantastic but again several years wait.
Lots of people love their Lagoons, FP, Leopards etc but all are built for charter market and designed to a price - I've only ever sailed cats and wouldn't touch one but others are quite happy.
Broadblue make some nice boats and they're well made and designed by actual sailors - they have a new 425 out this year which is in your size range or the Rapier 400 but thats a little specialist for cruising ...
Dazcat as mentioned are great but defiantly 7 figures and built to order so probably 2025 before delivery and very few of the modern designs going second hand.

At the moment cats are fetching silly money second hand - people are seriously asking and often getting near 100K for a Prout Snowgoose in great condition, £130K for the sedate Prout 39 Escale, workers have 10m Catalacs for £70K right now!

For more performance maybe an older Catana - the last 15 years they've gone a bit slow and heavy but before that they were the Outremer of their day. Most Locke Crowther designs were very good but you need to check who built them and how well. Richard Woods stuff is great but not many boats in the 40 foot range

All in all if you're looking at 6 figures rather than 7 and want new and want it within a reasonable timescale I'd say call Mark Jarvis at Broadblue and see how long the wait for a 425 is . If you have 7 figures than ask him how long the wait for a new 550 is. If you don't mind waiting years and have 7 figures call HH or Outremer.

 

[capnsensible]

 

[Tranona]

We have friends here in Grenada with a 3 year old Nauticat 40 open. He has been quite honest about its shortcomings. He has owned it for two years having come from a mono and says he isn't in love with the boat.
The accommodation in the cockpit it fantastic in hot weather. The indoor bit of the saloon is small. The accommodation below is small.
We raced them from Tyrell Bay, .Carriacou to the South Coast of Grenada. About 36nm. Our heavy monohull blew then away to windward in 12kts apparent. We were several miles ahead when they threw the towel in. Their leeway was impressive. Huge. They tacked several times and ended up in almost the same spot. The Nauticat 40 open is at the sportier end of catamaran market. I would hate to think what some of the tubbier cats would perform like.
Most tubby cats simply motor to weather because they don't sail well. If you are happy with a motorsailor then a cat might be for you. If you want performance then you need to look at the like of Outremer with daggerboards.

Small correction - it is Nautitech, not Nauticat. Could not be more different boats!

 

[geem]

Small correction - it is Nautitech, not Nauticat. Could not be more different boats!

Yep, your right. My bad

 

[Kelpie]

Broadblue make some nice boats and they're well made and designed by actual sailors

I only know a couple of people with Broadblue cats, one of them had some scary problems with structural beams parting company with the hull when sailing in strong conditions. I'm hoping he was just very unlucky. It was a few years ago and he still has the boat.

 

[geem]

It really depends on your budget and if you want new or used.

Outremer are great but have a 4 year waiting list so second hand stuff is selling for more than new just to jump the queue
HH are fantastic but again several years wait.
Lots of people love their Lagoons, FP, Leopards etc but all are built for charter market and designed to a price - I've only ever sailed cats and wouldn't touch one but others are quite happy.
Broadblue make some nice boats and they're well made and designed by actual sailors - they have a new 425 out this year which is in your size range or the Rapier 400 but thats a little specialist for cruising ...
Dazcat as mentioned are great but defiantly 7 figures and built to order so probably 2025 before delivery and very few of the modern designs going second hand.

At the moment cats are fetching silly money second hand - people are seriously asking and often getting near 100K for a Prout Snowgoose in great condition, £130K for the sedate Prout 39 Escale, workers have 10m Catalacs for £70K right now!

For more performance maybe an older Catana - the last 15 years they've gone a bit slow and heavy but before that they were the Outremer of their day. Most Locke Crowther designs were very good but you need to check who built them and how well. Richard Woods stuff is great but not many boats in the 40 foot range

All in all if you're looking at 6 figures rather than 7 and want new and want it within a reasonable timescale I'd say call Mark Jarvis at Broadblue and see how long the wait for a 425 is . If you have 7 figures than ask him how long the wait for a new 550 is. If you don't mind waiting years and have 7 figures call HH or Outremer.

I have seen the HH cats up close. Also spoke to the yard who were fixing stuff. They are not trouble free. They have some silly design features for cruising. The rudders are the deeper than the hull. First thing to touch in a grounding unless the boards are down. They are super skinny rudders and very vulnerable. Carbon hulls are very noisy down below.
The catch 22 with cats is to keep them light so they perfrom you can't add lots of sound insulation. Without the sound insulation it's like being inside a drum. Watch some of the Imoca sailing in carbon monohulls. An extreme example but not dissimilar to a carbon cat.
A guy I met had sailed a Gunboat across the Atlantic on a delivery trip. He said how incredibly noisy those boats were. All creaks and groans as the carbon drum slams on the water.
If I was looking a catamaran and had a large budget, the one for me would be a Balance. Built in South Africa. The right spec for performance and comfort but not cheap. A friend did some consultancy for them. He also built the first ever Gunboats in his yard in Port Elisabeth in SA. He has since built several big cats and a couple of all carbon cats. He told me that for cruising, the carbon aspect is unnecessary and undesirable. Rich people just like to say they have a carbon catamaran.

 

[goeasy123]

Are you at liberty to disclose what your budget will be for purchasing a cat?
Could it stretch to building a new boat to your specifications?

Like @Chiara’s slave above, I have a soft spot for Richard Woods designs - Sailing Catamarans - Home

And Dazcats - Dazcat Catamaran Range - The Multihull Centre The Multihull Centre

Oh, and I must admit to liking the older Outremers.... this one looks nice (I have no connection to her) - 2000 Outremer 50L Multi-Hull for sale - YachtWorld

John Shuttleworth and Chris White designs are mentioned in this thread in the Liveaboard Forum -
Anyone have opinions on Shuttleworth -vs Chris White catamarans?

That's an interesting list. Things not to buy new include guitars, boats and cars. Price, up to 600k euros used.

I have seen the HH cats up close. Also spoke to the yard who were fixing stuff. They are not trouble free. They have some silly design features for cruising. The rudders are the deeper than the hull. First thing to touch in a grounding unless the boards are down. They are super skinny rudders and very vulnerable. Carbon hulls are very noisy down below.
The catch 22 with cats is to keep them light so they perfrom you can't add lots of sound insulation. Without the sound insulation it's like being inside a drum. Watch some of the Imoca sailing in carbon monohulls. An extreme example but not dissimilar to a carbon cat.
A guy I met had sailed a Gunboat across the Atlantic on a delivery trip. He said how incredibly noisy those boats were. All creaks and groans as the carbon drum slams on the water.
If I was looking a catamaran and had a large budget, the one for me would be a Balance. Built in South Africa. The right spec for performance and comfort but not cheap. A friend did some consultancy for them. He also built the first ever Gunboats in his yard in Port Elisabeth in SA. He has since built several big cats and a couple of all carbon cats. He told me that for cruising, the carbon aspect is unnecessary and undesirable. Rich people just like to say they have a carbon catamaran.

I've just watched a utoob vid on Balances design philosophy, which I like. ...not ultra light performance, not 'eggbox' charter market, but practical and durable liveaboard passage making. More like that??