I'm not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

[Mudhook]

I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I normally take a dim view of complainers and 'it-was-all-a-fix' disappointed examinees, but I thought I'd share my recent RYA Coastal Skipper exam experience to see what the great and the good on this list think.

I have just over the minimum sea time for Coastal, and made this clear to the east coast school I attended for the Coastal prep course over Easter. I said I'd be in their hands about whether to go for the exam and this was understood and accepted. We had a great week doing all the exercises and fitting in well as a crew - just me, the instructor and a Day Skipper student. During the course the instructor said to go for it, and I did.

On the day my nav and chartwork was spot-on, marina handling faultless and most other bits seemed OK, but I did miss a hard-in jib sheet on the MOB drill (but still picked up the fender first pass), plus one or two other lack-of-immediate-awareness things which I'd normally have picked up but was somewhat constrained by nervousness under examination.

When we got alongside the examiner said he'd put in a report but it wouldn't be favourable. When I asked if that was a fail, he just repeated the report thing. My instructor told him the unforced errors were likely down to nerves as I'd been doing it fine all week, and was somewhat taken aback that I hadn't got a pass/fail decision.

So now I'm in limbo-land until the RYA deign to write to me. I can take a fail decision on the chin, but I don't understand the hard ride, and I don't understand why I spent weeks mugging up on col-regs, lights and shapes, sound signals, met, etc, to receive only a couple of cursory questions on the whole lot, yet a ten-minute grilling on whether I'm daft enough to go to sea without checking if my crew are epileptic/diabetic, etc.

I'd be grateful for other people's comments. If I finally find out I've failed the exam I'll go back and do it again - but I'll wonder why I couldn't have been told that at the time. I can live with getting it wrong - I DID make errors - but £106 seems a lot of money for such an inconsistent exam. Am I being silly?

 

[rogerroger]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I don't think your being silly - my question is though, did you learn a lot ? If getting the "ticket" is the most important thing then perhaps you were going in with slighlty the wrong attitude.

If you feel you are a better / safer / more comptent sailor / skipper but fail then just put it down to experience and do it again next year.

It sounds like it might have been something intangible rather specifics such as parking the boat. Perhaps the examiner just didn't quite feel he'd be confident letting you skipper a boat with his kids on board for example.

You are examined all the time effecively - the examiner is aware of how you're sailing the boat even when he's down below testing someone on col regs.

Of course we'll all hope you pass, it is very disappointing to spend the money and time to fail. But, if it makes you a better sailor in the long run then perhaps it's for the best.

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[Mudhook]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Thanks, Roger. No, not just certificate hunting. I learnt a lot and found the course superb. I have no need of the ticket itself - the school is happy to let me charter their boats - but I do like an outside confirmation of competence where available. In this case the answer seems to be non-confirmation!

Regards. Mudhook.

 

[rogerroger]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Well perhaps the examiner was in a bad mood!!

Anyway - I'll cross my fingers for you and let us know the result...

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[billskip]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Hi Mudhook..sorry to see you worry about this..dont..its no good thinking you failed because mob drill..if you get a mob situation(Which I hope you never do) it aint quite like the text book.. what ever happens learn to do things with confidence ...after all this is fun not an exercise to make some examiner happy on the day...having the ticket will not put a shield round you....£106 is a lot but if you think it was wasted then you in for a supprise how much more you will wast throughout you boating life..enjoy your future sailing and take care ..good luck next time..

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

www.macsyachting.com

 

[extravert]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I took my yachtmaster exam a few weeks ago, and the examiner told both of us examined at the time after the exam whether we had passed or not. He did not give much feedback though, saying that would be in the written report to follow.

We were continuously examined for the whole 36 hours, and just about everything in the syllabus that there was time for we had tested. When one of the two candidates was doing something practical or preparing, the examiner fired textbook questions to the other on lights, shapes, sounds, flags, met, safety etc. During the practical tests, like MOB, if he wasn't completely satisfied he would say why and make us do it again, for example not bringing the boat to a complete stop. He also made us explain the bookwork we were doing and any decisions we took to him and the other non-examined crew member to test whether we could get ideas across clearly.

In all I consider the examiner was tough but fair. I don't know what you thought, but both candidates on my exam thought it was one of the most nerve wracking and unpleasant 36 hours of our lives. (Don't want to put anyone off though).

 

[ponapay]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I find it extraodinary that a professional examiner is not prepared to discus with his/her examinee the exam results.

The exam is 95% practical, and others have said the confidence portrayed is a vital part of that exam. But any examiner worthy of the title MUST be prepared to justify his/her decision with the candidate and not chicken out by saying it will be in the report.

I hope the RYA takes note - it certainly should.

My experience of the yachtmaster exam was entirely different. I found it enjoyable, hard work and, as the only candidate and with a crew I had never met before, realistic of what should be expected of the skipper of any vessel. It was 5 hours of gruelling, tense but enjoyable testing.

It is well worth persevering. Every day one learns something new, still true at 61!

Ian
ponapay@aol.com

 

[cynthia]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Mine was the exact opposite - booked for the day skipper practical course, but they upgraded me within an hour to coastal skipper - no extra charge, gave me the qual. and also taught me to play gin rummy. No complaints at all!! Never did more than day skipper at theory level though - might give me more confidence if I did.

 

[peterb]

Course or exam?

But did you take the Coastal Skipper practical course or the Coastal Skipper exam? Did you get a Certificate of Competence (which comes with passing the exam) or was it the course completion certificate? It's surprising how many people still get confused by the difference.

 

[david_bagshaw]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

When I did my Y.M. I was told the result immediately, however I think there have been a number of changes since then.


Perhaps the thing your examiner picked upon was your relative lack of experience plus a perhaps lack of confidence in a “tight “ situation.

The confidence thing with YM is Very important, & I assume is also in coastal skipper, & I bet when you get the report it will indicate the lack of general experience was the thing that has let you down.


I hope the above helps, but I know will not dissipate the irritation of not passing this time never mind the additional costs.


GOOD LUCK next time


David
www.euroboating.net

 

[cynthia]

Re: Course or exam?

Took the theory for Day skipper - booked the practical day skipper - upgraded to coastal because I appeared to know one end of a boat from the other - got signed off for Coastal Skipper practical, therefore I never did the c.s. theory exam, only the practical.

Next step - first aid exam - this seems to be just as important, but I'm a bit of a wuz when it comes to watching/coping with the gory bits!

 

[Guest]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I'm the world's worse "examination candidate" so I appreciate the problems with "nerves".

My only "good exam" was when I was a Policeman and I was taking my driving test.

I threw my helmet into the back of the car - looked at the Examiner who lived in the Town I worked in as a Policeman - and WE just knew I wasn't going to fail!!!!!!!!!

All the best )))

IanD

 

[Guest]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Sorry to hear of your experience. I suspect that there was something the examiner was not too happy about and needed to discuss it with the qualifications board. Actually, examiners can only RECOMMEND a pass or a fail - not award it, although it is rare for the board to go against the examiner's recommendation.
Yachtmaster Examiner (26 years!)

 

[Jeremy_W]

I\'m sorry, but..

.. that seems daft. I haven't sat YM or CS Pactical, but I really cannot see how the RYA panel, sitting in Woking or wherever, with only the YM Examiner report to go on, could over-rule the opinion of the YM Examiner who was present.

If an instant decision is good enough to drive a 100 m.p.h. killing machine, it should be good enough for yachting.

 

[Guest]

Re: I\'m sorry, but..

You seem to be comparing the Yachtmaster Exam with the Driving Test which clearly is daft also. One is for the purpose of demonstrating to the candidate the level of competence to which he/she has reached while the other was introduced to save lives.
Remember that RYA certs do not qualify you to do anything. Driving licences do.
The fact that certain organisations have hi-jacked the RYA system for there own purposes has nothing to do with their original purpose. The Qualifications Panel (by the way, the RYA hasn't been in Woking for about 20 years, and is on the move again) nearly always accepts an examiner's recommendation but just once in a while needs to discuss things with him/her before issuing the certificate.

 

[Mudhook]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

Thanks to all for the wise and supportive advice in response to my original post. All I really want to be able to do is charter boats and go sailing, so despite the setback of the exam I've achieved that aim. Much food for thought has been provided on the question of practical exams on this thread and on a couple of other related threads that seem to be still burning.

Personally I'm totally in support of the RYA's shorebased and practical courses and exams, although I'm sure we've all heard the 'I sailed with a YM once and he nearly had us aground/knocked down/in collision' story several times. Methinks these tales are put about by those who don't want to accept that maybe there's something they don't know. I certainly have sailed with more than one experienced skipper who could learn a thing or two from an RYA practical course.

Anyway, I'll let you know what transpires re my Coastal Skipper cert from the RYA, and if the answer is negative, as seems highly likely, I'll just go back and do it again, armed with some common sense from contributors here.

Re how to find a reliable school - do what I did and trawl about on this list until you get a good personal recommendation from someone. My personal observation of the two schools that I've attended is that if the school is running pretty much full time then the boat and instructor are likely to be first class in all the areas that matter. Also look for a good cruising area with many local destinations and the possibility to keep sailing if the weather ain't brilliant.

Regards, Mudhook.

 

[seahorse]

Re: I\'m not normally one to complain but... (RYA exam)

I think u got a bit of a bum deal. Surely entrants for any exam are entitled to feedback/de-brief otherwise how do we learn from our mistakes?
If your examiner would not do this seems to be a lack of proffessionalism somewhere.

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: I\'m sorry, but..

I don't understand what you are trying to communicate.