Ignorant Rib Drivers in Pwllheli

perhaps the slip should have a little more room round it then to allow for folks to get their boats out and the others going to their moorings to have room also, i must admit i did not notice a particular problem when i was there.

what stu did wrong was post a pointless childish rant on here with silly name calling when he would have been better off visiting the harbour master who was there on the slip during all the slipping in and slipping out, also a harbourmaster boat was by the entrance to the harbour. He did not indicate in any way that there was any issues around the slip. but that was around 4pm on the sunday afternoon when i came out
 
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perhaps the slip should have a little more room round it

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Which is exactly the point that SS was making in the first place! There wasn't enough room because all the ribs had congregated around it and were reluctant to allow other vessels through.

The other point that he made about people moving/tying up to his tender doesn't seem to have been answered at all. His line was lost and peeps were tying up to his handles. Whatever the circumstances that doesn't appear to be in order. What do you think?

Now that everyone has got it off their chest about the so called name calling it would be interesting to hear what those that were there think about the boating/seamanship issues which were raised in the initial post. So far those points seem to have been studiously ignored.

We have been told that this "raid" was well organised; why didn't the organisers get things organised out so that other boaters would not be too inconvenienced?
 
theres always one isnt there, part of the deal that i negotiated was to be able to leave the rib there when i was out sailing. engage brain before opening gob?
stu
 
i was there on both days and did not see anyone inconvenienced at all, no attitudes, no issues, no speeding, as you can see from the posts from SS he certainly does have an attitude, even the latest posts show attitude and arrogance and a rather childish disposition

perhaps i would venture to suggest that his seamanship skills are perhaps a bit lacking in the same way his social skills seem to be. Pehaps where ever he goes he needs loads and loads of room. There are loads of folks like that or perhaps he just wanted to lord it up when passing by those frightfull little noisy rubber boat thingies with frightfully horrid looking people.

who knows and frankly who cares, he was rude in his first post and has repeated his arrogance in subsequent posts, i detect that even regular users of this forum are a little surprised/dismayed/put off by his remarks and reactions.

SS, if we see you again we will try to give you a nice wide berth, and perhaps you can ask the harbourmaster if he can make sure the PUBLIC slip is totally clear of boats so you can get yours back home.

sounds like you need all the help you can get.
 
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Which is exactly the point that SS was making in the first place! There wasn't enough room because all the ribs had congregated around it and were reluctant to allow other vessels through.

The other point that he made about people moving/tying up to his tender doesn't seem to have been answered at all. His line was lost and peeps were tying up to his handles. Whatever the circumstances that doesn't appear to be in order. What do you think?

Now that everyone has got it off their chest about the so called name calling it would be interesting to hear what those that were there think about the boating/seamanship issues which were raised in the initial post. So far those points seem to have been studiously ignored.

We have been told that this "raid" was well organised; why didn't the organisers get things organised out so that other boaters would not be too inconvenienced?

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Actually I don't think Stu really cares about the boat handling issues - he just wanted an obnoxious rant. If he really wants to discuss the boat handling issues then I suggest he posts a new thread without the irrelevant stereotyping.

Then we can tell him where he or the the ribbers went wrong!

I wasn't there, I was in Scotland, but if he would care to PM me the length and type of rope he has "lost" from his own rib I will dig some out of my collection and post it to him - as an olive branch between boat users.

NEIL
 
SS may have come in a bit strong and implied stereotypical views - I guess he was as mad as hell and needed an outlet for his frustrations - apparently caused by 2 un-co-operative skippers, I doubt the rant would have been much different if it was a bunch of racing dinghies doing the same thing.

Common coutesy from both sides is what is required along with an understanding about the capabilities and limitations of other vessels.

I would suggest that if you are on the water and are politely requested to move so another vessel can progress past your position it is polite to do so - as long as you don't put your boat/crew or others in danger. To return a polite request (as we are told it was) with a shrug and no movement is rude, arrogant and shows total intollerance to other water users - this sort of behaviour should not be tollerated and stamped out.

As for the moving of SS's Rib - No one has offered a valid explanation for that - and IMO his complaint is perfectly valid.

SkipperStu - you may wish to apologise if you have caused offence to the any part of the boating community whilst venting your frustrations.
 
tisme
thanks for clarifying the situation, the prob is as always peeps pick on a certain part of the thread and forget the main points.
for peeps who dont know the area, the council in its wisdom decided last year to stop people using the marina slip except park and drive operators for "health and safety"reasons.
i.e the public was getting in the way of the tractor drivers.
to park and launch costs £10 each way or more.
the public slip at the other end of the harbour (which i have been referring to) only charges a £10 and therein i suspect lies the prob.
peeps dont want to pay £20 when they can get away with £10, this has now caused a congestion problem at the public slip, there is now also a prob as to where to park the 4 by 4s and trailers. plus as we have found out us regulars, who by the way pay £1400 a year for the facilities, are now finding the congestion causing problems. the council have tried to alleviate the prob by spreading sand around the slip but peeps still want to stick their nose on to the hard slip which is only single track.
going on to my other points, whatever the points about rights on pontoons i feel justifiably aggrieved that some one should loop a ski rope through my fragile fabric handles to secure a machine that must weigh 4 or 5 times mine, lose some of my property and then try to move my boat because they wanted the space. forget about ribs, yotties mobos etc that was just plain ignorant behaviour symptomatic of what is happening in society. the only saving grace from the rib was the fact that the lady driver was extremely embarrassed by the behaviour of the other male inhabitant, if you think i have been ranting you should have heard her!
 
In a nut shell, in a nut shell.

SkipperStu - you may wish to apologise if you have caused offence to the any part of the boating community whilst venting your frustrations


I do!! perhaps if nothing else it has brought to a head and got aired a few of the frustrations that concern us all, you may buy me a beer if you wish!
Stu
 
[ QUOTE ]
In a nut shell, in a nut shell.

SkipperStu - you may wish to apologise if you have caused offence to the any part of the boating community whilst venting your frustrations


I do!! perhaps if nothing else it has brought to a head and got aired a few of the frustrations that concern us all, you may buy me a beer if you wish!
Stu

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cool.....good man! when/if we are up your way again we will let you know and then perhaps we can all meet up for a beer or two
 
Perhapes next time SS should time his arrival back to his mooring before or after low time, allowing him more room in the channel to manoeuvre. Slipways always become congested at low tide. A bit of pre-planning will avoid any near misses with those waiting to recover craft. The RIB drivers may not have paid for a mooring, but they did pay to use the slipway, and so have the same rights as you SS to you the slip and facilities.

Regardless of the fact the SS suggests that the RIB users where in the wrong, the moral of the story remains the same.... there will always be two sides to every story.

Your argument SS remains with the ONE or TWO drivers of RIBs, and you should not make comments towards an entire group.
 
Nearly 200 posts and none of the RIB drivers seem to have been able to get much beyond the personal stuff and respond to the basic boating questions which SS raised........the last suggestion seemed to be that he should not expect to go anywhere near the slip at low water as it would inconvenience the rib drivers.
 
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Nearly 200 posts and none of the RIB drivers seem to have been able to get much beyond the personal stuff and respond to the basic boating questions which SS raised........the last suggestion seemed to be that he should not expect to go anywhere near the slip at low water as it would inconvenience the rib drivers.

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Because its not actually clear that SS has a real complaint about seamanship. I invited him to open a new thread without the abuse but he hasn't so I will try to address the points here line by painfull line [I have removed some of the offensive language]:
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This weekend the overloaded public slip in Pwllheli was congested with loads of big ribs

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the key word here is PUBLIC so whats the issue - it was a traffic jam because it was busy so whats the issue. The M90 will be conjested this weekend because of T in the Park - should I post a complaint on the Classical Music Forum?

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(20ft plus, 200hp engines)

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seems irrelevant - and also a little misleading as there were several smaller boats/engines there. [ QUOTE ]

they cruised up and down, some slow, some fast,

[/ QUOTE ] many people who were there dispute that there was excess speed, and the harbour master was around much of the time -
Anyone who seems sceptical should be aware that there is a fascination with video footage amongst ribnet users (never understood it myself!) and in the next few weeks this is likely to be posted (once it gets uploaded etc)
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Later on saw them out by the St Tuds islands, must have been about 25 of them, making lots of noise etc, dont know what they were upto.

[/ QUOTE ] I think we have established it was a gathering of people with common interests. They all drive motor boats (most?) with outboards - yes these are relatively noisey but surely that is not the complaint? they have as much right to be there as you have to flap your sails!
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Any way come back to the harbour after a super hot day and there they all are, queuing up to get back on their trailers. the tide was right out and they were blocking the way to my berth.

the tide has just turned so have got it up my chuff and once i start to commit have to keep going, narrow bit etc, cant get to close to the beach.


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it may not have been appropriate to attempt this part of the passage at this time. The Colregs rules 6a (ii) (iii) (v) (vi) all specifically suggest that it may not have been appropriate for SS to enter the limited depth of water and space which was available at that time. (I am NOT suggesting that the RIBs were necessarily compliant with ALL colregs - but it sounds as though SS arrived after them and thus was better assessed to make the decision). Rule 18 d (ii) also places the onus on the vessel resticted by her draft to manouver with due regard for this.
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gentle ahoy to the [skipper] blocking my way and all we get back is a shrug and so what,

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the correct sound signal is five short blasts when unclear of the intentions of a vessel in a narrow fairway. I appreciate this may seem rather rude but it is the rules. Since it is not clear who was the giveway vessel - perhaps the shrug meant "don't be so impatient - i'm stuck in a queue myself?" since shrugs are also not covered in the colregs as a recognised communication method we can only speculate!
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swmbo has to start explaining to [the skipper] and his [crew] that we cant go outside him because of depth etc.

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I assume you were displaying the correct day shape for a vessel constrained by its draft - otherwise there is no reason the RIB should have assumed you have a fixed keel and greater limitation than him
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By this time i had decided that i would have to shoulder him out of the way, he finally moved, his prop wash started to push me towards the trots and i had to accelerate to get some rudder wash etc,

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what shoulder out the way really means in this context. However it would appear that the rib took the correct action in that when he assessed there was a close quarters situation with a risk of collision he took avoiding action regardless of whether he was the stand on or give way vessel. I note that SS does not suggest that he was the Stand on vessel.

I think prop wash is the least of the rib drivers concerns if he is trying to avoid a collision. It sounds as though you took the correct action of increasing revs to increase steerageway.
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anyway it all worked out.

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So this seems like a lot of discussion about nothing then!

My personal experience is that sailing vessels opperating under power often forget they no longer have right of way over power driven vessels.

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Near by is a pontoon to the boatyard where my binlids had left their 10ft rib while we went out (we pay the yard to use their slip, moor on the pontoon and park the rib during the summer.

There is big signs everywhere saying for use of customers only), another [rib user] was undoing it and moving it, i got in my dinghy and went to challenge him.


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Other posts here suggest that some of the rib users had paid to use the pontoon too.
There are other threads on this forum discussion the etiquette of moving other peoples boats in marinas, loosening their lines to stop squeaking, and tying up their halyards to stop rattling - this seems somewhat similar. I'm not convinced it is wrong, my boat is frequently moved on a pontoon by "officials" to facilitate access for other boats.
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He had wrapped a ski line thru my fabric handles,


[/ QUOTE ]this probably isn't best practice. BUT i see no real issue with it being a ski line. He sounds like he was rafting up to your rib to reduce the number of boats amongst the moorings whilst he fetched his trailer - this sounds like the sort of thing you were asking for earlier. It doesn't appear to have caused any damage to your boat. As you are no doubt aware one of the disadvantages of RIBs is that they rarely have decent places to tie onto when rafting up. Surely you do not consider rafting up itself unseaman like? And if this was for only a short time whilst collecting a trailer etc. then I think you are perhaps being a little reactionary.
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he had lost my extension to my painter


[/ QUOTE ] this is wrong (possibly just a genuine mistake) - and as a gesture (although it wasn't me) I have offered to replace it. As an aside extending your painter is generally not a good idea if it means it can reach the prop.
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and had generally got it all in a knotted mess.

[/ QUOTE ]surely we aren't having a 200 post discussion about a knotted painter?


OK that seems to cover most of the seamanship issues...
SS this is not necessarily directed at you as you seem to have moved on from this. I guess when you posted the original question you never expected it to be read by those responsible (which I am not).

I appologise to all those of you who are now thoroughly bored of this thread, but we were accused of ignoring the issues actually the only question SS asked was was he being a cranky old git!)
 
Ah well! To see the Col Regs miss-interpreted in an attempt to show that SS shouldn't have been there but the Ribs should does indicate the degree of the problem.

I'll let you get on with it. Fair winds!
 
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oh and a reciprocation of apologies would be nice!
stu

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i had used the example of stupid_stu and then the oops this name calling is catching as a way of pointing out the name calling you had used throughout your thread as inappropriate

seems to have worked in the end and we all came to a resolution

therefore happy to appologise
sorry for calling you stupid_Stu

are we cool?
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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