If you think catamarans are ugly,

[dancrane]

Re that modern monohull...

I know I'd never have begun sailing if most boats had resembled that.

But, am I the only one who thinks that this rather extreme shape might quickly become a thing of beauty, given full teak decks? It's an obsession with me, I admit. All manner of oddly-proportioned and awkward designs become lovely with teak, or even any good hardwood-substitute. That was not really in this designer's mind, I daresay. A great shame when designers would rather surprise than please the public.

And, that interior? It reminds me of the floodable compartment that deepsea divers have to sit in. Monstrous and pretentious, it's a bit like the 1980s set of a daft advertisement for fake mashed potato... "here's what the future will be like..."

Woeful. But, you have to forgive fashion everything...it dies so young.

 

[jamesjermain]

Yz. Looks like a dentists' lair. Very smart indeed. But I can't quite see that big reacher being handled by one photogenic Frog, his scrawny bitch, and a pair of barefoot preteens.

Given to me, I'd take it to somewhere where the rum is cheap, the goyls are dear, and swop it for one of these....

...then I'd go join Stingo at the bar!

With you all the way, Lady C

 

[dancrane]

Are those daggerboards, aboard the big cat? Scarily reminiscent of Topper days. Shoal water...ouch!

Great-looking boat though.

 

[Adonnante]

Are those daggerboards, aboard the big cat? Scarily reminiscent of Topper days. Shoal water...ouch!

Great-looking boat though.

I think a couple of daggerboards would be much easier to live with than a 3.5m canting keel.http://www.jp54.fr/en/specifications-technical-overview/page_qQ.html

Peter

 

[dancrane]

Agreed, Adonnante. But, I wonder if, say, the bottom third of a daggerboard could itself pivot, maybe on elastic, for the vessel's benefit in the event of running up on sand or solid rock. Even if the daggerboard were seriously damaged thereby, it would be preferable to the destruction of the casing or injury to the hull's structure.

By the way, I can't make your spec link open.

 

[Adonnante]

Agreed, Adonnante. But, I wonder if, say, the bottom third of a daggerboard could itself pivot, maybe on elastic, for the vessel's benefit in the event of running up on sand or solid rock. Even if the daggerboard were seriously damaged thereby, it would be preferable to the destruction of the casing or injury to the hull's structure.

By the way, I can't make your spec link open.

Most designer that I'm aware of tend to make the boards much more fragile than the cases, often including crash boxes in the cases. In my experience any damage to the case is usually restricted to the upper forward area of the case which is above the water line. It is also usual for any multihull with boards to be positively buoyant. Ultimately any boat being run aground at speed will suffer and its not the fault of the boat!

Sorry about the link, another try..http://www.jp54.fr/fr/specifications-technical-overview/page_qu.html

 

[dancrane]

Those are all good points, Adonnante. Nice to know some provision for collision is made by daggerboard-cat builders. And no question, it'd be a foolish or disorientated skipper who runs five or ten tonnes of yacht, at speed onto any solid seabed. Although, plenty do do that, every year...

...I wonder whether some kind of less-intrusive, almost leeboard-style drop-keel might better suit the slab-sided cruising cat? As a best-of-all-worlds solution. I can't help thinking, that idea can't be my own.

...and by the way, ha ha ha!! There was me, hoping that your link (successful, this time) would show details of the big sleek catamaran from Lady C's picture! Not that wedge-shaped monohull! But actually I really do admire new designs. And when they mature and become popular, I consider buying one. As to the JP54? Ask me in 2027...

Anybody know which model the catamaran photo shows?

 

[Adonnante]

Anybody know which model the catamaran photo shows?[/QUOTE]


http://www.catamaran-outremer.com/

Other nice cats...http://www.gunboat.com/ ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdqXoIhg0dA&feature=player_embedded

or..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77tfzpSAApE&feature=player_embedded

 

[dancrane]

Some persuasive footage, there. And I don't need much persuading.

It does make me wonder though, why there isn't nearly as much catamaran mass-production, as there is for monohulls?

For a market made mostly of new money with few inherited prejudices against the form, the latest plastic catamaran is surely a more attractive proposition than an equivalent-sized deep-keeler that rolls more, weighs more, performs less well and lacks occupiable deckspace?

When I said plastic catamarans aren't often pretty, I was thinking it's because their design evolution has hardly begun. But why hasn't it equalled the progress of monohulls?

***rant completed. dan is done*** (FOR NOW...)

 

[Flying Penguin]

Some persuasive footage, there. And I don't need much persuading.

It does make me wonder though, why there isn't nearly as much catamaran mass-production, as there is for monohulls?

For a market made mostly of new money with few inherited prejudices against the form, the latest plastic catamaran is surely a more attractive proposition than an equivalent-sized deep-keeler that rolls more, weighs more, performs less well and lacks occupiable deckspace?

When I said plastic catamarans aren't often pretty, I was thinking it's because their design evolution has hardly begun. But why hasn't it equalled the progress of monohulls?

***rant completed. dan is done*** (FOR NOW...)

You may be underestimating "form prejudice" in "new money" buyers. You said it yourself, if yachts looked stylised and futuristic you wouldn't have started, you also mention a love of teak decks. That suggests to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you were drawn to sailing by "classic" sailing imagery, Swallows & Amazons, Slocum, etc etc. When you thought of sailing you thought of something a bit like this:

That is very much the imagery that I'm sure inspired a lot of people to look at sailing, so when you take the average new buyer, and suggest they buy something like the above pictured cruising cats (including the Gunboat and Outremer cats, which are still pretty lacking in the beauty department imho), the reaction is one of disbelief or scorn.

For all the clear practical benefits for some types of sailing, it doesn't fit with "that" image, so the marketing battle is going to be uphill for some time yet.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Seajet]

Well, I like the mono Space 1999 interior a lot; however, looking at the exterior, I wouldn't fancy self & gf's chances in a gale, so sadly if the money beamed down in front of me right now, I'd go and tease the space age jobs' salesman for a while then come to my senses and buy something like a HR, or maybe an Ovni.

 

[Stingo]

6-7 pinters:

Jamie, are you trying to pick a fight? I live in one of these, have hit 17.4 knots in her, can sail her single-handed with no mods done.....

 

[Stingo]

...then I'd go join Stingo at the bar!

A cunning plan and an excellent idea.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Jamie, are you trying to pick a fight?

Nope. No personal attack intended. I will edit my post to replace the picture if you'd like me to use another type of cat as an example. Edited now to show a less controversial ugly cat

I live in one of these, have hit 17.4 knots in her, can sail her single-handed with no mods done.....

Unless I'm very much mistake we were discussing aesthetics, not practicalities. I'm sure you have every reason to love yours. In fact I've at every opportunity said that they are very practical boats. By and large (and IMHO) they aren't pretty boats, even modern and expensive ones. If you wish to take this as a personal swipe please feel free.....

Jamie

 

[Stingo]

Nope. No personal attack intended. I will edit my post to replace the picture if you'd like me to use another type of cat as an example. Edited now to show a less controversial ugly cat

Now that is ugly.

EDIT: The cat in the new picture, not what you said.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Now that is ugly.

EDIT: The cat in the new picture, not what you said.

Glad we are agreed Was looking for more modern cats originally, hence the choice.

And I wouldn't have even considered that meaning had you not specifically mentioned it!

Jamie

 

[tim_ber]

John Shuttleworth or Chris White

design good looking boats.

I think some of John Shuttleworth's cats are as sexy as any Ferrari or the like. A joy to view (the boat, not the car)

Have a look and tell met they are not sexy looking catamarans

Not the best, but gives an idea of the lines and use of curves:

http://www.john-shuttleworth.com/Images/Zazen-Muros.jpg

http://www.john-shuttleworth.com/Images/fig-11-hulls.jpg

http://www.john-shuttleworth.com/Images/Fig-16-S31-Calais.jpg

http://www.john-shuttleworth.com/Images/Fig-18-S31-cockpit.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=1024&bih=538

 

[Flying Penguin]

Have a look and tell met they are not sexy looking catamarans

Well I could, but I'd be lying through my teeth. They are gorgeous.....

 

[BAtoo]

And here is what she looks like from the outside:

BTW - I think I she is very smart...

Well, I for one, think thats a very sexy boat & it would be on my lottery-win shopping list

Any idea how big a win is needed - haven't seen a price anywhere ?

 

[dancrane]

Some beautiful catamaran designs here, especially the Gunboat 66. Anyone imagining spending money on a sixty footer must have to recognise that the advantages of two hulls over one, aren't diminished or blighted by compromise at this level.

Dreaming for a moment, I can't think of any good reason for choosing even something as elegant and prestigious as an Oyster or a Nautor Swan, when the unballasted alternative is this much roomier, much faster, much freer to anchor close-in, less inclined to heel and doesn't suffer from the unignorable navigation disadvantage of fixed deep draft. If the catamaran wasn't up to serious deep-sea voyaging, conventional big sloops could still claim a field they're the best in. But these big twins don't seem to have a downside.

I acknowledge that this is size-related. Cruising multihulls of less than about 11 meters are often cramped affairs (however loyal their owners are), and in my view, their proportions lessen their outward beauty. I read lately that the bridgedeck on the old Prout 34 or 37 has significantly less than 6' headroom! Can this be so? Odd design decision - it's certain to regularly irritate virtually every adult male in any crew.

BTW, Jamie 'Flying Penguin', you are very astute; my preferences and primary influences are indeed wooden, traditional types.

BUT...given that I, the owner, will have to do all the maintenance, subtle use of reinforced plastic becomes not just allowable but preferable; and the shapes which that material permits aren't exactly limited. And, who said catamarans can't wear wooden decks and rails?

I guess I’m just surprised that trad/wood/atmosphere and the interesting virtues of catamarans, haven’t been successfully married and marketed, en masse. I’d like one!