Tranona
Well-Known Member
Thanks dom. If you look on the PBO forum - now on the second page, you will see an update with reasons for returning.
If I were to change my boat, this would probably be my top choice.
- Thread starter Concerto
- Start date
D
Deleted member 36384
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Looks fast but the lack of pictures really doesn't help with making any opinions about whether it is a good boat to cross oceans in. The fact that many different designs cross oceans safely suggests that this boats perceived weaknesses would be no different from any other.
I quite like the shape of the boat but I don't like down below based on what I can see. It looks clinical and the sort of interior that would be uncomfortable to live in should the crew be more than a couple, however, more pictures could change my mind on this. A very shit advert that does its best not to sell the boat. What are they hiding, or are they just crap advertisers!
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/2940650227?bof=UlCaGn7b
Observations
I quite like the shape of the boat but I don't like down below based on what I can see. It looks clinical and the sort of interior that would be uncomfortable to live in should the crew be more than a couple, however, more pictures could change my mind on this. A very shit advert that does its best not to sell the boat. What are they hiding, or are they just crap advertisers!
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/2940650227?bof=UlCaGn7b
Observations
- Down-flooding risk is increased because there is no cill at the cockpit / companion way. It does not look like the stern can be closed in, but that can also reduce down-flooding risk if open.
- Few handholds down below and not a particularly secure layout.
- No handholds on the deck beyond the guardrails. Having sailed in rough weather on a yacht with no handholds, working forwards and moving to the mast is awkward and insecure. It is not about the number of times this has to be done, it is about the time you need them.
- Cockpit looks secure as it’s narrow where folks sit.
- Deck looks as if it throws off waves easily and the porch roof looks solid and secure with good protection.
- Good visibility from cockpit but poor storage on the shelves, and we all have stuff in the cockpit that slides about, which we would rather did not.
- Twin wheels when cruising are overstated in my view as auto helm or wind vane does the job and thus makes twin wheel efficiencies for manual sailing redundant. On this boat, a reasonably sized single wheel would give more useful space in the cockpit, on each side, allowing extension of cockpit seats or lockers. Could be wrong as the back of the cockpit is not clear.
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Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
scruff
Well-Known Member
looks interesting, what is she?
wully1
Well-Known Member
They are fitted to wide transom boats to fill in the space - no practical reason other than being trendy as far as I’m concerned. Wide arse boats get 2 cabins jammed in the back so that’s 4 folk who can’t sleep for the wavelets slapping underneath all night long..
“Oh but you can see the genoa tell tails...” while most folk motor to windward... Oh, thats because it’s scary when they heel over with such a long drop down to the thin, glued on teak seats way down to leeward.
They look awful to my eye.
Twin wheel far arse boats mean ‘ modern’ so flimsy sharp edged square IKEA interiors which I find cheap looking. The company accountants love them though.
Is that enough to be going on with?
wully1
Well-Known Member
Exactly none. “Fast” and “cruising” in a description of a sailing boat makes no sense in my life thanks.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Again, how many miles have you sailed in a modern quality boat with twin wheels?
Sounds like prejudice without having sailed on an Arcona, or an X-Yacht, or a Salona, or a Dehler, or an HR etc etc with twin wheels.
I wasn’t convinced before I got our current boat, but 15,000 miles says works well
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
One hull......
wully1
Well-Known Member
I direct Sir’s attention to #26 above. Why would I bother if I think they are shit? And remember your opinion is only that - don’t make it right for everyone.
BTW Older Arconas look nice but now they’ve gone and stuck another wheel on them and ruined it..
dom
Well-Known Member
All very well, but we don’t want to let facts get in the way of the truth in such debates!
?
prv
Well-Known Member
It looks like there’s a “stable door” folded into a recess to port of the cabin doorway. Presumably if there was any risk of water on the cockpit sole you’d close at least the bottom half of the door. Hard to see how strong it may or may not be from the limited photos.
Pete
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Exactly. But for some it is better not to even try to understand or listen because then their unfounded prejudices remain intact!
One wonders why just about all the major designers and builders of cruisers and cruiser racers have gone down this route. I guess it might have been to p**s off all their potential customers so they won't buy the boats. This of course means that they won't have all the hassle of running a boatyard and employing all those people. If so the strategy has clearly failed. A bonus, though is that it gives some with seemingly zero experience of such boats, nor probably the inclination (or indeed the means) to buy a new boat an opportunity to air their prejudices in public. Perhaps they do this because all the yacht club bars are closed because of Covid, particularly in Queen Nicola's territory.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
... is more than enough.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Standfast 36
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
... is more than enough.
I would be interested in your ideas for less than one hull....
but we digress..... Comfort comes from flat sailing
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Allow for more room yes - a plus point
wave slap- not really, I have never noticed that but I certainly did on my 2 clinker built wooden ones
Can see the tell tales -- well sailors like to-- a plus point. far better than being stuck having to look at instruments
Thin teak seats !!! & ikea interiors -- WTF has that got to do with twin wheels, or is it the fact that in reality you cannot afford one, so just pour scorn on those who can?
So may I suggest that you have not actually put up one valid reason against them.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
The advantage of a twin wheel is the ability to steer from the leward side... For you shall mark many a race winning helm sitting to leward where they have a clear view of the telltales and can see anyone approaching under the Genny.
As to the general design ideas, .methinks you are harking back to a Morris Marina as the apogee of motoring design and quality..
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
Very pretty boat ?
Did the Standfast 36 come with different deck options ? I seem to remember them being quasi flush-decked (with a slightly barrel shaped deck to provide the headroom). Yours seems to have a bit of a Swan 38 sort of thing going on, with a slice of cheese shaped coachroof.
ip485
Well-Known Member
I get a little confused these days what is meant by a pilot house.
In a large yacht, the one thing I dont have on my IP is a fully enclosed helm. There are times I quite like the idea in colder climes. You know 2 am in the morning, mid channel, freezing cold and blowing old boots.
An enclosed pilot house doesnt work on small yachts. Proabably around 50 foot is required. On my IP I can sit at the nav station and fully command the autopilot from there, so this is a reasonable compromise, but I dont have the visibility to do this safely.
Short of the IP, my perfect yacht would include a fully enclosed pilot house with a helm position and good all round visibility. Amel is a good example.
In a large yacht, the one thing I dont have on my IP is a fully enclosed helm. There are times I quite like the idea in colder climes. You know 2 am in the morning, mid channel, freezing cold and blowing old boots.
An enclosed pilot house doesnt work on small yachts. Proabably around 50 foot is required. On my IP I can sit at the nav station and fully command the autopilot from there, so this is a reasonable compromise, but I dont have the visibility to do this safely.
Short of the IP, my perfect yacht would include a fully enclosed pilot house with a helm position and good all round visibility. Amel is a good example.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I remember a debate on exactly this question going on for several pages a few years ago. Deck Saloons, Pilot Houses, raised deck houses, Wheel Houses etc. There is no clear definition. builders use terms like this to position their boats in a way that will attract buyers and differentiate (or associate!) them from(or with) their competitors. So you might want to call it a "Pilot House" to imply rufty tufty all weather, old seadog associations. Or "Deck Saloon" to associate it with glamorous 1920/30s style boats like the 23sqm or cruising versions of the J class. If the latter you would also call your sleeping cabin a "state room"!
But then some deck saloons also have seating and steering positions in the raised areas - what are they? Well Nauticat call them Deck Saloons and Vancouver called theirs Pilot House . Others in the past like Colvic Watson called the "Wheel House", logically as they housed yje wheel, and that is what trawlermen called them. Jeanneau called their high coaccroof boats Deck Saloons even though you could not see out of the windows unless you were 7' tall and standing rather than sitting in the dinette area, but they needed to somehow differentiate the boat from the almost identical boats in the range that sold to charter companies. Of course it then enabled a 15% price premium for 30cm higher coachroof, bigger windows and fewer cabins (now staterooms) inside. Bavaria did the same with their Vision range, although they did have the decency to beef them up with greater displacement and a bigger rig, but you still can't see out of the windows unless standing.
Wonderful thing the English language, especially when you get sailors and marketing men involved! Even worse if they are one and the same thing with a degree in psychology.
But then some deck saloons also have seating and steering positions in the raised areas - what are they? Well Nauticat call them Deck Saloons and Vancouver called theirs Pilot House . Others in the past like Colvic Watson called the "Wheel House", logically as they housed yje wheel, and that is what trawlermen called them. Jeanneau called their high coaccroof boats Deck Saloons even though you could not see out of the windows unless you were 7' tall and standing rather than sitting in the dinette area, but they needed to somehow differentiate the boat from the almost identical boats in the range that sold to charter companies. Of course it then enabled a 15% price premium for 30cm higher coachroof, bigger windows and fewer cabins (now staterooms) inside. Bavaria did the same with their Vision range, although they did have the decency to beef them up with greater displacement and a bigger rig, but you still can't see out of the windows unless standing.
Wonderful thing the English language, especially when you get sailors and marketing men involved! Even worse if they are one and the same thing with a degree in psychology.