If I were an RNLI donor I would not be happy.

Chrusty 1 said:
Think what you like, but do you really think that posting what you have on this forum will have any effect on the way the RNLI is run, or the way most people in this country feel about it?
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When someone offers valid points for discussion that you don't agree with plan A is to rubbish them (also Steve C Cronin-snooty toffee-nosed attitude) if no good go to plan B it does not matter it won't change nor will people change their mind

The RNLI really is a sacred cow that no one must discuss. The crews deserve everyone's respect but that should not stop rational discussion nor should the inability to immediately effect change. If that was the case we should not even discuss the weather!
 
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King Penguin said:
French rescue services is gov. funded and they often charge salvage, I believe.
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The SNSM do not receive ANY government funding - same as the RNLI.

Yes, they will make a towage charge (rightly so) for vessels, but absolutely no charge for lifesaving.

Comparing the SNSM boat with the Shannon is not quite right - the Shannon cost also includes the launch tractor / trailer, which is a superb invention compared to the old beach recovery method used on the Merseys.

Even I don't get why the RNLI have resisted jets for so long though, or why they simply didn't go for the Visser class designed used for years in Holland by the KNRM.

Although the Shannon has one huge advantage - the new generation kit inside and the ability to ensure crew can remain seated for longer will cut down on in-cabin injuries.

And with a 25 year lifespan, it's not that expensive - plus, like many of their boats, once sold / donated out of service, they are likely to carry on lifesaving around the world for years afterwards.

The SNSM does have an age problem coming with a lot of its boats.
 
jordanbasset said:
Lastly if the figure of 70% donations is correct, that would mean the French people give around ££11m to their life boat service, the British around £150m. Are the French generally not into giving to charity or do they just not appreciate the life boat service. Or is it the fact that they have to pay to have their boat saved that makes them reluctant, just a thought.
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The most likely explanation is that french people listen to the news, they do not hear of deaths at sea that were avoidable for want of a lifeboat launch or expensive water jet powered rescue craft that can perform pirouettes in 4m breaking suft, so they rationally conclude £18 million p/a is enough and donate where it can make a difference.
 
jordanbasset said:
Lastly if the figure of 70% donations is correct, that would mean the French people give around ££11m to their life boat service, the British around £150m. Are the French generally not into giving to charity or do they just not appreciate the life boat service. Or is it the fact that they have to pay to have their boat saved that makes them reluctant, just a thought.
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It's more about the fact that the SNSM does not employ a huge marketing department, on indeed does not have a whole department dedicated to encouraging and managing legacies.

Local stations are usually well supported by their communities.
 
chanelyacht said:
The SNSM do not receive ANY government funding - same as the RNLI.

Yes, they will make a towage charge (rightly so) for vessels, but absolutely no charge for lifesaving.

Comparing the SNSM boat with the Shannon is not quite right - the Shannon cost also includes the launch tractor / trailer, which is a superb invention compared to the old beach recovery method used on the Merseys.

Even I don't get why the RNLI have resisted jets for so long though, or why they simply didn't go for the Visser class designed used for years in Holland by the KNRM.

Although the Shannon has one huge advantage - the new generation kit inside and the ability to ensure crew can remain seated for longer will cut down on in-cabin injuries.

And with a 25 year lifespan, it's not that expensive - plus, like many of their boats, once sold / donated out of service, they are likely to carry on lifesaving around the world for years afterwards.

The SNSM does have an age problem coming with a lot of its boats.
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And the replacement for the current half million boat will cost 1.5M according to their own website so they may need to up their funding level
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Think what you like, but do you really think that posting what you have on this forum will have any effect on the way the RNLI is run, or the way most people in this country feel about it?
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I assume one of those executive salaries funds a PR type function at the RNLI, so yes I think they care very much about public perception.

Next time the RNLI finds itself the wrong side of the news agenda no doubt some tabloid journalist with zero knowledge of maritime matters will Google for background material to reinforce a negative article and find this thread an interesting read.
 
viago said:
£1 000 000 for a trailer? you got to be kidding.
i take point about horses for courses but its a glorified jet ski and i would have thought it should be a bit cheaper than that.
still that pales into insignificance when you see where the gravy boat really leads:
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I see you've never worked on complex jet drive boats then...

The Shannon and carriage are far, far more that a "glorified jet ski".
 
Brigantia said:
Plus, I am still in the dark as to the charges SNSM levy for salvage. Are this distriubuted amongst the crew or do they go into general funds?
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No, salvage is not distributed amongst the crew.

The two organisations are very different - for a start, the French fleet is nowhere near the same spec as the UK's, although some similarities exist amongst the CTT fleet (Canot TousTemps, or all weather boats). The inshore fleet is vastly different both in type and number.

I certainly wouldn't agree the SNSM is poorly managed - it just doesn't chose to follow the same business model as the RNLI.
 
chanelyacht said:
No, salvage is not distributed amongst the crew..
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So presumably it goes into the general funds

chanelyacht said:
I certainly wouldn't agree the SNSM is poorly managed - it just doesn't chose to follow the same business model as the RNLI.
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I wouldn't even advance an opinion on whether the SNSM is poorly managed or not - I simply don't know enough about the organisation! From what I've heard on here and read elsewhere it appears to be doing a decent job of providing the service with very constrained funding

The point about different business models is, IMO, the key to this. The RNLI very definitely operates to the "big charity" model, no dount about that. They do it extremely effectively too and are the envy of other charities big and small.

As far as I'm concerned they can spend my Shoreline (I'd be an offshore or even a govenor member but money is not exactly flowing like water around here at the moment) subscription on gold plating the jet outlets on the Shannon class lifeboat if it takes their fancy! It pleases me greatly to see the new kit for the RNLI being developed in-house and with an emphasis on quality and fitness for purpose rather than cost cutting.
 
Brigantia said:
So presumably it goes into the general funds



I wouldn't even advance an opinion on whether the SNSM is poorly managed or not - I simply don't know enough about the organisation! From what I've heard on here and read elsewhere it appears to be doing a decent job of providing the service with very constrained funding

The point about different business models is, IMO, the key to this. The RNLI very definitely operates to the "big charity" model, no dount about that. They do it extremely effectively too and are the envy of other charities big and small.

As far as I'm concerned they can spend my Shoreline (I'd be an offshore or even a govenor member but money is not exactly flowing like water around here at the moment) subscription on gold plating the jet outlets on the Shannon class lifeboat if it takes their fancy! It pleases me greatly to see the new kit for the RNLI being developed in-house and with an emphasis on quality and fitness for purpose rather than cost cutting.
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Well at least some of us a singing from the same hymn sheet!:)

I really don't understand why some people on here seem to think that they know better than the RNLI's management as to how the RNLI should be run.

I note that not one of them has said that they would refuse any help from the RNLI because they feel very strongly that it is not run properly.

I think that if most contributors to these forums were to be bothered to answer these critics, the critics would find themselves vastly outnumbered, as it is, I think it's probably the case that a lot of forumites just can't be bothered to argue with the likes of Sybarite.

I give people credit for having enough intelligence to decide for themselves who they wish to give their charitable donations to, and judging by the amount of money that flows into the RNLI's coffers, I would say that an awful lot of people think they are a very worthwhile cause.

I will say it again, instead of coming on here making a lot of shallow noise about the RNLI, the critics should join the RNLI as Governor members, and then they can voice their ideas to the people that matter.

Is the RNLI a sacred cow? You betcha life it is!!! and so what? It's a sacred cow that we as sailors of whatever persuasion should be justifiably proud of, at every level.

I know one thing from my experience in industry, that as soon as the bean counters get a hold of a company or organisation it goes down the toilet at a great rate of knots!:mad:
 
Sailfree said:
When someone offers valid points for discussion that you don't agree with plan A is to rubbish them (also Steve C Cronin-snooty toffee-nosed attitude) if no good go to plan B it does not matter it won't change nor will people change their mind

The RNLI really is a sacred cow that no one must discuss. The crews deserve everyone's respect but that should not stop rational discussion nor should the inability to immediately effect change. If that was the case we should not even discuss the weather!
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Unfortunately, Sybrarites info was wrong on so many counts, if he had looked behind the headline figures, his 'largely comparable' comparisons were misleading.......and when I suggested this to him, I was slated by him and others.

Number of call outs, number of all weather vessels, size of coastline (huge difference between SNSM France & RNLI England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland).

I think he was doing it just to wind people up, looking at his other posts, I can't see many that are pro UK, even during the Olympics he appeared pro to any other country except England.

He comes across to me as a sort of modern day Lord Hawhaw. He chucked the bait and we fell for it hook, line and sinker!
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Well at least some of us a singing from the same hymn sheet!:)

I really don't understand why some people on here seem to think that they know better than the RNLI's management as to how the RNLI should be run.

I note that not one of them has said that they would refuse any help from the RNLI because they feel very strongly that it is not run properly.

I think that if most contributors to these forums were to be bothered to answer these critics, the critics would find themselves vastly outnumbered, as it is, I think it's probably the case that a lot of forumites just can't be bothered to argue with the likes of Sybarite.

I give people credit for having enough intelligence to decide for themselves who they wish to give their charitable donations to, and judging by the amount of money that flows into the RNLI's coffers, I would say that an awful lot of people think they are a very worthwhile cause.

I will say it again, instead of coming on here making a lot of shallow noise about the RNLI, the critics should join the RNLI as Governor members, and then they can voice their ideas to the people that matter.

Is the RNLI a sacred cow? You betcha life it is!!! and so what? It's a sacred cow that we as sailors of whatever persuasion should be justifiably proud of, at every level.

I know one thing from my experience in industry, that as soon as the bean counters get a hold of a company or organisation it goes down the toilet at a great rate of knots!:mad:
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Well, it HAD to happen one day I suppose!

I entirely agree with every word.
 
I see that Sybarite is still refusing to recognise that the Shannon is designed to operate in shallow water, including beach launch & recovery off an exposed beach. The French boats are designed to lie afloat & operate in deep water - where the trawler design is enirely relevant & appropriate. They may only be 4' draught, but one touch of the props or rudder on the bottom will disable it utterly. Not much use as a rescue boat if it needs rescueing itself.

But then that simple fact completely undermines his whole troll.
 
Interesting how many posts support the RNLI without alowing any questions on them and another clearly states its a sacred cow. Yes I can understand that as there is always a chance that we might rely on them one day.

Now others on here are policemen and many more policemen have paid with their lives serving the public now are they extended the same lack of criticism or opinions expressed - NO

Now others on here are Doctors and many work long hours in the NHS serving the public now are they (Drs & NHS) extended the same lack of criticism or opinions expressed - NO

I am sure others can think of other professions/organisations that some have commented on in either the way they are run or spend their money yet immediately Sybarite comments on the new lifeboat so many reach for their shotguns!! Interesting responses.
 
Sailfree said:
Interesting how many posts support the RNLI without alowing any questions on them and another clearly states its a sacred cow. Yes I can understand that as there is always a chance that we might rely on them one day.

Now others on here are policemen and many more policemen have paid with their lives serving the public now are they extended the same lack of criticism or opinions expressed - NO

Now others on here are Doctors and many work long hours in the NHS serving the public now are they (Drs & NHS) extended the same lack of criticism or opinions expressed - NO

I am sure others can think of other professions/organisations that some have commented on in either the way they are run or spend their money yet immediately Sybarite comments on the new lifeboat so many reach for their shotguns!! Interesting responses.
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Will all the negative jabberings on here make any difference? NO!

If you don't like the way the RNLI is run, join and make a difference, indulging your venomous wee selves on here is just a pointless exercise.:)
 
Searush said:
I see that Sybarite is still refusing to recognise that the Shannon is designed to operate in shallow water, including beach launch & recovery off an exposed beach. The French boats are designed to lie afloat & operate in deep water - where the trawler design is enirely relevant & appropriate. They may only be 4' draught, but one touch of the props or rudder on the bottom will disable it utterly. Not much use as a rescue boat if it needs rescueing itself.

But then that simple fact completely undermines his whole troll.
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Never mind, take heart from the little poll that is running, I think it is most eloquent!
 
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