Identity cards

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Sybarite

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I've been listening to the arguments on the Beeb and quite often reference is made as to how identity cards are obligatory in France.

They aren't. The necessity to be able to prove your identity is - and that can be with a passport or a driving license, student card etc, as long as it is an officially issued document containing a minimum of information and a photo.

In 29 years in France I have never been asked to produce proof of identity other than in support of cheque payments again for which a driving license is perfectly valid. They even issue driving licenses for life (this is going to change) and so there are some pretty old photos going about.

Somehow I can see UK police applying an excess of zeal. It seems to a feature of the national character.

David Blunkett was saying that, at present, one could steal somebody else's identity; whose would you choose?

John

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Identity theft

I certainly wouldn't steal Blunkett's identity. He's a bigotted fascist who's brain cell doesn't seem to be wired right. If he thinks ID cards are the answer to terrorism then he probably also believes in Santa Claus and Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

No, it's all about control.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
 
Re: Identity theft

Hey, Santa and Skippy are alive and well! Last seen in a flat in Earls Court (next door neighbours to the blond guy from Starsky and Hutch)

<hr width=100% size=1>Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
 
In Italy, we have id cards, but driving licences serve as proof of id too. Both are a complete waste of time. As you say, it's about control. Does Italy have less crime than the UK? Fewer illegals? Of course not. It's no problem for a criminal to come up with a reasonable-looking id card, but it's a pain in the a*** for the rest of us if we forget to have id and dare to drive a car.
On a different tack, here on the Slovene border, we can sometimes queue for an hour to cross the border because of the volume of traffic. But walk a hundred yards and you can comfortably stroll across (illegally). Which is, of course, what everyone does if they have something to hide.
Say no to id cards while you can!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
Identity cards - Who do we say \'No\' to?

Say no to id cards while you can!!!

Isn't it a bit late? Who do we say 'No' to?

According to some stupid TV poll over 80% of 'us' are in favour, with over 50% agreeing that one of the pieces of data that should be encoded is our HIV status! (Apparently only 30% thought one's religion should be included)

- Nick



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>http://www.bluemoment.com</A></font size=1>
 
Re:Oh! Please let me have one.

I want to have an identity card, please let me, I want to feel safe. Identity cards are the answer. Them and CCTV will keep me safe. I want that as well. Oh! go on let me. Identity cards, CCTV and speed cameras. They'll keep me safe. I'll have nothing to be frightened of if we have more of them. Identity cards,CCTV,speed cameras and GCHQ reading my email and mobile phone calls Oh! that makes me feel just so secure I can't tell you.

Of course you could go sailing to get away from it all. Thats after you've paid your light dues, told HMCG where your going and who with and passed an exam. At least you'd be away from being watched. Well unless your in a major port area like Southampton where everything you do can be videotaped.

You must feel nearly as safe as me by now.

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Re:Oh! Please let me have one.

"From creepies and crawlies and things that go blunk it the night, good Lord deliver us"!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
Re:Oh! Please let me have one.

"From creepies and crawlies and things that go Blunkett the night, good Lord deliver us"!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
Re:Oh! Please let me have one.

"From creepies and crawlies and things that go Blunkett the night, good Lord deliver us"!

re: the notion of showing HIV status: quite right! And HIV-positives should go round with a little bell intoning "unclean, unclean". And those with supernumerary nipples or warts should be burned at the stake. And those caught speeding have their right feet chopped off 'pour encourager les autres'. AAAAAGGGGHH!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
2003 - Estonia issued me a card

This card gives a) ID confirmation, b) chip for reading voting and other rights regards residence, c) can even be used in bank / authorities ID verification electronically across the net .....

I have no objection whatsoever to it and in fact welcome it. I have hd no problems with it .... with all the crap going around at the moment - its nice to know that I can prove who I am ....

Little old ladies and others scared of showing their ages etc. - the driving licence scandal - UK still the only place with a paper licence that is useless in many countries as it has no picture to verify holder - so we have to get an international book .... or as should have been done many years ago - a card type like most other countries have. But of course UK still requires the paper one as the real official licence !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
Re: 2003 - Estonia issued me a card

I'm not against the idea of having an id card per se (well, not true - I have vaguely libertarian resistance to the idea); it's just that in the real world, they are totally meaningless as the bad guys have counterfeits. All this bumph produces is hassle and expense for the poor honest punter, increased bureaucracy and the potential for fines.
Eg I was fined once because I did not have the car papers with me. I didn't have the car papers with me because I had to go to an agency to have them changed (I'd just bought the car), a process involving footwork, considerable expense (euro 800), residence certificate, residence permit, old car papers. The police who stopped me checked the car was mine by calling HQ, but fined me for not having the papers. The guy more or less admitted to me that if the papers had looked right (ie the sort of quality an ink-jet printer can produce), I would have been waved through. The same holds true with id cards.
Italy is swamped with paperwork - it doesn't stop the criminals but it certainly trips everyone else up, and provides lots of dosh for the gov.


<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
When I lived in Saudi ...

The rule was that you had to have the original docs of the car with you at all times ...... If stopped by police and you didn;t have them - car was impounded and you were fined.

BUT

As a foreigner - you were not allowed to have in your possession original docs of a car - so we had to compromise with photocopies - which were specifically stated to be not allowed ....

It was a ctach 22 situation...... either way you couldn't win.

In Baltic's driver must have original docs at all times who-ever is driving ..... and if like me you have old english Drtiving licence - I need an international book + the old paper one together.

Funny story here .... I asked to have Latvian Licence ... showed my UK licence. Girl said I must take full test in Latvian Language as I could not qualify for licence issue. Hmmmmm strange - I was told that it was no problem. After about 30 mins discussion - she says ...... If Englend was a member of United Kingdom - no problem - licence isssued against medical and thats it ...... I couldn't stop laughing - I had to leave before embarrasing her .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
yes and no...

Scrap all paperwork: you immediately have several tens of thousand civil servants without a job, I doubt there will ever be any political force willing to do that..

one may say: well all those civil servants could be employed in wealth producing activities

I doubt it very much, most of those very civil servants would immediately and strongly oppose every change in their professional status, as anyone having asked for "Paper 1A" at the office entitled to produce "Paper 1Abis" has surely experienced

I am of course against all this hassle, but I am afraid it is rooted much deeper into social organization to take into account any voices of protest



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Re: yes and no...

80% in favour eh? Anyone on this board get asked, or know anyone who was asked?

I remain of the opinion that these results are extrapolated from samples that are not quite as valid as our political master would like to claim. They will tell us next that 80% of the UK wants us to pay light dues and for red diesel at 95ppl:-)

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
 
Yes please!

I took a driving test in Houston, and they issued me with a Texas licence. I found myself carrying it around in my wallet (it's credit card sized) as it was so useful for ID purposes in French supermarkets etc. I often used it in the UK when hiring cars as it was handier than our own document. It's expired now so no longer useful.

Trouble is, I still get jury summonses from Harris County. The most recent was for last week, and I've long since given up writing to tell them I'm not eligible.

I lived for a year in Italy and can endorse the beurocratic nature of their officials. I was once arrested whilst driving for not having any documents, and it was only a date with the police chiefs daughter which saved me from a night in the cells. Romance, especially with a high-ranking officer's daughter, counts higher than beurocracy it seems.

I totally distrust our government and have no doubt that the motives for ID cards are a long way from what they are telling us. I suspect it probably has more to do with trying to control the black economy than any terrorist threat (which they will wheel out to justify a myriad of Blunkett initiatives). The cost is likely to exceed £3 billion - I'd much rather see this spent on improved policing and intelligence.

Nor do I believe that biometric enhancements can be made secure. It won't take criminals long to forge an identity using matching biometrics. Unless this is linked to a database for confirmation, the card will serve no purpose. If it is linked to a database, then the cards become redundant for ID.

Dream on Blunkett, and let's hope the rest of us are alert enough to put a stop to this wasteful twaddle.

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Re: 2003 - Estonia issued me a card

The Spanish Customs Officer stops them and tells them "It's-a illegal to putta 5 people in a Quattro."
"Vot do you mean it's illegal?" asks the German driver.
"Quattro meansa four," replies the Spanish official.
"Quattro is just ze name of ze automobile" the Germans retort unbelievingly. Look at ze papers, ze car is designed to karry 5 persons."
"You cant a pulla that a one on me!" replies the Spanish customs officer. "Quattro meansa four. You have fivea people ina your car and you are therefore abreaking the law."
The German driver replies angrily, "You idiot! Call your zupervisor over. I vant to speak to someone viz more intelligence!"
"Sorry," responds the Spanish officer, "He can'ta come. He's a busy with a 2 guys in a Fiat Uno."

John


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