Icy Marina pontoons

Seajet said:
Steve, I've heard that one about not clearing outside one's house too; I would love to be told by someone here with legal knowledge that it's an urban myth, but in the meantime we like others daren't risk it.

The marinas near me sometimes use sand, some don't bother.
!
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Urban myth - The law views matters from the perspective of man on the top deck of a Clapham omnibus - A judge would view the matter along the lines of -was your action in clearing or gritting a reasonable effort to improve the situation, yet despite that the accident happened. Alternatively if you threw a bucket of water over the ice to remove it you would be in deep stuff.
 
Ricd said:
Urban myth - The law views matters from the perspective of man on the top deck of a Clapham omnibus - A judge would view the matter along the lines of -was your action in clearing or gritting a reasonable effort to improve the situation, yet despite that the accident happened. Alternatively if you threw a bucket of water over the ice to remove it you would be in deep stuff.
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Can't agree, the man on the Clapham Omnibus see's a cleared stretch of path and strides out confidently, not taking the same care he would over an icy path. The path has not been cleared sufficiently and has formed black ice. He flies up in the air.

Result: Contributory Negligence claim against the person clearing the ice.

Leave it alone! The marina / housholder / car park attendant did not put the ice there, he is not culpable, so long as he takes no action.

You cannot be sued for the actions of a stranger.

In the opinion of my NEBOSH Dip lecturer and of course, as such, my drone opinion :)
 
Croak said:
Black text on a dark grey background, I would like to read it but too much effort requierd.
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Thats not how is presented on the site........should be black text on a light grey background.

Anyway here it is.....:)


Winter Survival in a Marina Environment.

Picture it…………………………..The low winter sun glowing in the misty sky, reflecting the million tiny, frosty diamonds glistening on the white hulls and decks of the sleepy yachts and motor cruisers, enveloping them in gift wrapper from heaven. The frozen sheets and lines for all the world resembling Christmas lights hanging in a floating village, the calm, magical air that lingers eerily just a few feet above the black icy mirror of water, creeping around the hulls like a transparent blanket. It’s a quiet, peaceful corner of the wintery world and it is breathtakingly beautiful but don’t be fooled because under the glamour and the bling of the winter white lies one of the most dangerous places to spend the party season and the Festivities, especially after a night on the town or even a portion of your mum’s sherry trifle!

Unless you have been SAS trained or happen to be a former member of the Cirque de Soleil, navigating your body from the gate to the boat can be a traumatic event and if this has to be performed on a daily basis then I suggest the marines’ type approach, you know the one…down on the belly and use the elbows to move forward, keeping the body as close to the pontoon as possible at all times! Because it’s when you try to get there in a two legged upright position that things start to go terribly wrong…..humans were not aesthetically designed to walk on slippery, swaying, sloping walkways of wood, maybe it is that the head is too heavy on the shoulders when the feet are not perfectly balanced, who knows. All I do know is that from very personal experience, humans have to adapt themselves to winter Marina life as a matter of safety and sanity by either strapping crampons to the soles of their Duberry Boots (remembering of course to remove them before stepping on to the teak decks) or embarking on some sort of tailor made course specifically for water dwellers that brings you to peak fitness and awareness of the environment we have to survive in. I am sure Ray Mears would think of a safe solution, the guy makes his own snow shoes in the hostile Canadian mountains so I am positive he could come up with something!

Getting to the boat without going for a chilling dip on route is still a very dangerous occupation and demands every skill a person can throw at it. This winter we are in a marina where the pontoons have a distinct lean, and this means that you must never, ever stop to speak to someone if there is even a glint of frost………….as soon as the momentum stops and the feet are in one place, old Isaac Newton’s law of gravity kicks in and without warning the feet slowly make their own way to the down side of the slope. There is no use anyone trying to come to your aid because they end up joining you on your journey to the edge and frantically scrambling up the slope to the high side now becomes a dance of urgency! Keeping to the raised side of the pontoon isn’t really a good option either, especially in the dark, as the piles that poke through the precarious platforms need to have a big gap around them to allow for the rise and fall……………..and it is a gap plenty big enough for a foot to fit through. Maybe the rest of most bodies wouldn’t have the room to follow the foot but beware all size zero sailors out there…………….don’t walk near the piles!

Then there is always the price we pay for the tranquillity…………………..a noticeable lack of people, which, in the bigger picture narrows your chances of having someone else walking by just at the moment you do go splash. The odds are that there will be absolutely not a hint of human existence on the Marina should you take a surprise dip and therefore no one to throw a life line or a ring, to guide you to the safety ladders dotted everywhere along the pontoons (except in close proximity to where you have gone splash), or even to call on their mobile for the cavalry. So…………………be warned.

Dougie is one of these lucky surefooted folk that can negotiate any terrain, I am so impressed when I watch him clambering over rocky beaches without even looking at where he places each foot. I follow on, picking my way less than nimbly over the obstacles placing each foot on a chosen rock, normally a really wobbly one that throws me in to the nearest rock pool. So he has no qualms about pontoon safety at all. Since I am quite a clumsy person and not at all agile on anything that isn’t perfectly flat and still, it has been a learning curve for me to negotiate a moving Orla and all the boaty bits that are attached to her deck without having to worry about getting off to make the perilous journey to the loo….another word of advice here, never leave loo visits till the last minute if you are less than athletic on the icy pontoons!

I spent two days on my own aboard recently where the temperature plummeted to sub zero and the pontoons became a nightmare, but one call to the Marina Office had the staff down to the boat and moving Orla closer to the main gate for me:- they were so quick that my freshly cooked porridge was still hot in its bowl when we were all tied up in our new berth!! Now I only have a few steps from the boat to the gangway which is made of much better stuff, the sticky stuff that my feet like to feel under them in the frosty weather. Another added bonus is the height of the pontoon……..I can now get on and off without doing damage to my overstretched thigh muscles which on the old berth were at their limits and it took a lot of grunting and pulling to clamour aboard………….so for that too, thanks guys!

Last year, up in Seaport Marina, Inverness, the Canal froze over for a week or two during a particularly cold spell. Three people that I know of fell in to the water through the ice from the pontoons and because we were on a hammerhead with a fair stretch to walk down, I was terrified of getting on and off the boat unless the sun had been out and managed to thaw the frozen surface, making it safer to disembark on to the skinny, narrow pontoon below. Which wasn’t very often as the sun was on holiday down south for the duration of the Scottish winter! One particularly cold afternoon I called the marina office from my mobile, I had to get off the boat for a medical appointment and the place was white with ice, the thick kind that has a shiny, glassy surface. The staff there told me that it wasn’t their job to keep the pontoons clear and that there was a grit bin and a shovel available below the office for us to help ourselves! Great………………….but the trick is,- how do you get down the icy pontoon to the grit bin in the first place dear?

Seriously though, it is winter and most boats are lying empty in the Marinas, their owners safely tucked up at home. It is the hardy live-a-board folks and the weekend skippers and crews that need to take extra care during the cold months. Most of us are not stupid enough to have a good drink before making our wobbly way to our vessels but there are always the exceptions to the rules, there are always the ones who don’t realise how intoxicated they actually are until the freezing air hits them like a freight train in the face as they emerge from the pub………………….and down the moving walkways of doom. On second thoughts maybe that is the answer……………..to sway in the opposite direction of the moving walkway as you stagger along!

Please, if you are lucky enough to be spending time in a marina environment over the Christmas and New Year Holidays, take great care getting to and from, and on and off the boats. It is a merry old time of year but even the soberest of us will find the long walks down the pontoons a very tricky pass -time.

Sometimes there is a price to pay for the peace and the freedom of life on board but not the ultimate price…………………… so be careful this winter, take heed of the conditions underfoot when entering a Marina and don’t forget your crampons!!

A Safe and Happy Festive Season to all

xxx

© 2009 YachtOrla.Com. All Rights Reserved E&OE
 
Sussex Express newspaper..

Just for info..

Meanwhile the Government has moved to answer residents’ fears about being legally liable if they clear snow and someone slips over. A new Snow Code states clearly that as long as snow is cleared responsibly in line with the tips provided, there will be no problem. People are being advised to move fresh snow soon after it has settled, and avoid using boiling water, which will freeze quickly.

'There's snow code like snow code ..like snow code ..like snow... dum de dum..:D :D :D :D
 
Thanks for that Downsman.

From the directgov website:

There's no law stopping you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your home or from public spaces. It's unlikely you'll be sued or held legally responsible for any injuries on the path if you have cleared it carefully. Follow the snow code when clearing snow and ice safely.
 
sarabande said:
Their response might be buckets of sand, or salting grit for DIY use. I can't understand why pontoon surfaces are not made with built-in anti-friction surfaces, anyway.
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Last winter - or was it the one before? - the linkspan of pontoons which connects the boat pontoon at Kirkcudbright marina to dry land was damaged in a storm. It was one o fthe wooden slat ones, and was replaced with a diffeent material - a white, plastic grid with square holes about 1/2" on each side in it. The new stuff is absolutely brilliant - no matter how cold and icey, it never seems to get slippy. Which is nice, because at low tide bits of it are very steep indeed.

Port Bannatyne marina uses even rougher but blue stuff everywhere. Not slippy, but unstandable-on with bare feet.
 
robertj said:
They are liable under the law if a safe environment is not provided for customers and staff alike.
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Is the danger of ice in cold weather (shock horror probe) any worse than the danger of water immediately beside the pontoons? Should marinas be forced to erect fences along both side of pontoons, with gates to allow access to boats?
 
I am impressed that you as a cryogenics specialist are impressed.

Any pics or trade names, or do you have a good contact in the marine pls ?
 
Seajet said:
Steve, I've heard that one about not clearing outside one's house too; I would love to be told by someone here with legal knowledge that it's an urban myth, but in the meantime we like others daren't risk it.
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Just go to the HSE website and follow the top link in the News section of the front page. That will take you to the official advice on clearing snow and ice yourself.

There's no law stopping you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your home or from public spaces. It's unlikely you'll be sued or held legally responsible for any injuries on the path if you have cleared it carefully.

If you clear snow and ice yourself, be careful - don’t make the pathways more dangerous by causing them to refreeze. But don’t be put off clearing paths because you’re afraid someone will get injured.
Remember, people walking on snow and ice have responsibility to be careful themselves. Follow the advice below to make sure you clear the pathway safely and effectively.​
 
VicS said:
Surely the marina has a duty of care.
They must have been aware that the pontoons would be slippery and should have taken reasonable steps to make them safe for their customers. You might have been seriously injured ( an uncle of mine fell over, bumped his head and died!) or fallen in the water and drowned

Get one of the firms of "ambulance chasers" on the case.

National Accident Helpline as advertised on TV perhaps. http://www.national-accident-helpline.co.uk/
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Whilst the OP might win a case against the marina eventually, the cost of insurance for all will start to go up to cover costs. The marinas will then charge extra to cover insurance and as boat owners we will possibly pay extra for our own insurance. We all have a duty of care and that includes 'looking after' one self. The insurers could even go down the route of not offering personal insurance cover if you use a pontoon in the winter, on the off chance that it may be icy.

Having read some of the agressive post thread - many years ago I went to Jersey zoo. In the kids (mainly filled up with adults) section there was a bit about damage to the planet and the cause. To see the cause you lifted a small flap and looked at an mirror ......
 
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Gosh, these Marinas really do sound dangerous places. I'm glad I keep well away from them.

FFS, it's icy - so it will be slippy. Geddit? It's not rocket science, you are not in a nice warm, well lit & safe City, you are on a wooden walkway over a lot of cold, wet water & probably on your own (even with their exorbitant charges I doubt that many Marinas can afford 24/7 staffing in the winter). So just take a little more care. Wear a lifejacket to the shops. :cool: Take more water with your chosen poison & drink less of it. Common sense, isn't it? How can you expect someone else to keep you safe when you choose to take risks? :rolleyes:

Funny, but it makes my short row out to my mooring seem much safer as I am sitting down & have never fallen off my seat yet. Mind you, the 15' vertical metal ladder down the quay & the short climb from dink to deck require a bit of care at any time of day or year. :D
 
I am racking my brains trying to remember...it was a long time ago...but I have experienced going up a wooden ramp from moorings in icy weather.
The ramp was covered with inverted beer bottle tops nailed there. Not good for the soles of wellies and deck shoes but they certainly gave a firm grip to one's gait after the heave ho that preceded it. :D
 
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