Icy Marina pontoons
- Thread starter clyst
- Start date
VO5
Well-Known Member
And has anybody walked absentmindedly off the end of a pontoon like I have ?
That's what happens when you don't look where you are going.
That's what happens when you don't look where you are going.
Seanick
Well-Known Member
And has anybody walked absentmindedly off the end of a pontoon like I have ?
Seen it done!
So you have walked over the gritted/salted pontoons (EYH,Thornham and Northeny all done btw), and you step on to your icy boat and fall flat on you face.....
The pontoon is the easy bit!
Having lived on my boat all yaer for nearly ten years you just learn to be careful!
VO5
Well-Known Member
No...not exactly...I walked off the end of the pontoon in St Peter Port, Guernsey....I was just not looking where I was going...and fortunately, minutes before I had taken off my wristwatch, a 1930's heirloom..
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Exactly, what have we come to? Someone has an accident and the handwringers start saying get some ambulance chasers on the job!I am sure you can find a no win, no fee solicitor to make a claim for a big payout, after the initial consultation you will probaby notice you have also suffered whiplash
Last years snow went uncleared on our marina allegedy because if they attempted to clear and then somebody fell they were liable and if they didnt clear it they were not, sad world we live in.
I despair, I went to Poof Helly today to drain the domestic water and run some antifreeze thru the raw water system. The onboard car computer was telling us it was -2 deg. There was a sign, beware, the pontoons may be slippy, or words to that effect. We walked down to the boat, stern to, the sugar scoop was "slicker than cum on a gold tooth" we carefully went on board, got some salt and made everything safe.
Bottom line, its winter, weather forecasts are telling us snow and ice, to be careful. Some one goes on a damp pontoon, falls over and hurts himself because there was some ice!!!
Dear me, what does he expect given the warnings he has had!!
But of course in this left wing brainwashed country of ours we have been force fed the mantra "Its always some one elses fault, you are not to blame, compensation, elf and safety"
Those forumites advocating finding an ambulance chaser should be ashamed of yourselves!!
No wonder our service industries charge so much when they have to put up with this nonsense!!
Stu
Heckler
Well-Known Member
How strange!And what, Oh incredibly tough and wise sailor, is this 'alternative accomodation' then ?
Your argument is about the same as 'if caught in heavy weather, one should of course beam oneself ashore by teleporter' !
I'm saying I think iced up pontoons are dangerous, and something should be done when this happens; and I can get around just fine in my boat to and from pontons, I usually manage with just a couple of dories as tugs, those and the bow-thruster get me out to the pilot boat to stay alongside all the way...
There is a real world out there, where people do not - or should not - take stupid risks just because someone providing a service can't bother to do it properly. As I said, if bothered about the legal side, have a waiver signed.
BTW I'm not the type who'd run to lawyers, unless I had a knife in my hand...END.
Stu
"Ex- BAe Dunsfold chief dinghy instructor" what is the significance of that?
Sandgrounder
Well-Known Member
Stu,
You'll find the ambulance chasing lawyers are not lefties: most are further right than Keith Joseph - it's all about what I can get for me or my client; sod the public good.
I'm as much against them ad anyone bit I think you should direct your accusations with more care/ thought.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Anyone who is daft enough to expect pontoons to be safer than pavements is deluding themselves.
You are paying to keep your boat there, not to be escorted to it safely.
In the Lakes on fresh water it has been customary for years to stretch chicken wire over the jetties. Keeps your grip on ice or green algae.
You are paying to keep your boat there, not to be escorted to it safely.
In the Lakes on fresh water it has been customary for years to stretch chicken wire over the jetties. Keeps your grip on ice or green algae.
lenseman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2006
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You can either right click on the text that is 'oh so difficult to read' and then left click on 'select all' and voila you will be able to read it.
Or you can copy and paste it into Word, Wordpad or Notebook.
Meercat to you
Seajet
...
Skipper stu,
I'm flattered you should look up my profile, the dinghy instructor bit is mentioned as it shows that quite possibly unlike yourself I am experienced with all sorts of dinghies, and training, as well as cruisers.
It says a lot about you that you studiously avoided mentioning the relevant cruiser part here !
This argument has been done to death now, simply a case of common sense V armchair lawyers who can't imagine anyone being different to them; I won't be bothering any more, so carry on attempting to insult people behind their backs if that's what turns you on, it only shows you for what you are.
All, I strongly suggest you click on the govt. link on Ubergeekian's post; it quite explicitly states one may take steps to 'clear one's drive' etc, so that must include marina management taking common sense steps too...
Another point our 'can't do that, go home ' brigade haven't considered is that not everyone going to and from boats is at peak fitness; there are plenty of eldery, young, disabled; or do we just let them be culled as 'natural selection' !
I will not be clicking onto this again, so knock yourself out ( you can take that in the sense of the Americanism or literally ).
I'm flattered you should look up my profile, the dinghy instructor bit is mentioned as it shows that quite possibly unlike yourself I am experienced with all sorts of dinghies, and training, as well as cruisers.
It says a lot about you that you studiously avoided mentioning the relevant cruiser part here !
This argument has been done to death now, simply a case of common sense V armchair lawyers who can't imagine anyone being different to them; I won't be bothering any more, so carry on attempting to insult people behind their backs if that's what turns you on, it only shows you for what you are.
All, I strongly suggest you click on the govt. link on Ubergeekian's post; it quite explicitly states one may take steps to 'clear one's drive' etc, so that must include marina management taking common sense steps too...
Another point our 'can't do that, go home ' brigade haven't considered is that not everyone going to and from boats is at peak fitness; there are plenty of eldery, young, disabled; or do we just let them be culled as 'natural selection' !
I will not be clicking onto this again, so knock yourself out ( you can take that in the sense of the Americanism or literally ).
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Pye_End
Well-Known Member
Personally I wouldn't dream of litigation for slipping, anywhere.
However, I do believe that marinas at a minimum should grit/salt the ramps up/down to the pontoon, or at least use materials that have some grip in the ice.
I often use walking boots in this sort of weather, but even very cautious walking down a ramp has let me to slide a couple of times. At least the pontoon itself is fairly flat so passable with care, although getting on and off my boat (bows on, with a bow sprit) mean that a lack of grip next to the boat is distictly dodgy. I like the idea of a bucket of seawater on the decking and will try it.
It seems sensible to try to minimise this sort of risk where possible and realistic - it is what we do in almost any other aspect of our daily lives. If the roads were un-gritted due to the feeling that it was too namby pamby then I suspect the lounge would be full of people complaining. Do we not carry safety equipment on our boats? Who would buy a car without airbags these days? I have seen far more accidents on pontoons than with any other aspect of boating.
However, I do believe that marinas at a minimum should grit/salt the ramps up/down to the pontoon, or at least use materials that have some grip in the ice.
I often use walking boots in this sort of weather, but even very cautious walking down a ramp has let me to slide a couple of times. At least the pontoon itself is fairly flat so passable with care, although getting on and off my boat (bows on, with a bow sprit) mean that a lack of grip next to the boat is distictly dodgy. I like the idea of a bucket of seawater on the decking and will try it.
It seems sensible to try to minimise this sort of risk where possible and realistic - it is what we do in almost any other aspect of our daily lives. If the roads were un-gritted due to the feeling that it was too namby pamby then I suspect the lounge would be full of people complaining. Do we not carry safety equipment on our boats? Who would buy a car without airbags these days? I have seen far more accidents on pontoons than with any other aspect of boating.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
IMHO a common sense reply. I'm down on the boat at the moment and the pontoons are quite icy in places but I wouldn't dream on going to court if I slipped.
Following some of the logic on this thread I presume certain contributers would rather see railway station platforms, etc left ungritted, as after all you can decide not to go to work.
Spicemariner
Well-Known Member
We lived aboard in USA last winter. Just as Americans must clear a path in front of their homes, we were responsible for clearing a path in front of our boat, if your neighbour didn't live aboard, you dug a bit further. The marina did salt the paths you had cleared. We are back in Jersey now and we spent the winter here in 2005. Jersey doesn't salt the roads because of contamination of the water supply and they don't salt the marina. Fortunately we don't usually get severe weather here but we did get some and the ramps were lethal when at high tide and a very steep angle, something you just have to accept and be VERY careful.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
any chance the Thames forum could ask for MG's official view please ? (even if it posted anonymously !)
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Hmm, rattled you cage!
Point I was making is that after 13 years of mollycoddling and the attitude that it is ALWAYS someone elses fault enshrined by the NuLabour mantra, isnt it about time for common sense to come back in to our lives?
As to my jibe about your qualifications, who cares? So why put that in your bio?
Stu
PS Better watch out or Ill start flashing my boy scouts badges!
trapezeartist
Well-Known Member
There seem to be two distinct elements to this thread:
1. Should everyone who does anything carry the total responsibility for what anyone else does with it afterwards? Or should we all take responsibility for our own actions?
2. Is it good if marinas put salt on pontoons?
It is good if marinas do anything for the benefit of their customers, like attempting to de-ice pontoons with salt. But they have the option whether to do it or not. And their customers have the option whether to remain customers or not.
Whether a marina does that something or not, I believe the individual user still retains the responsibility to look after themselves when using the marina.
In the case of the marina I know, they did put rock salt on the pontoons, and I appreciate their efforts. However it didn't work, and the pontoons were very slippery. This is not to say that the marina is then culpable for the slipperiness of the pontoons. Just that they need not have bothered, or could have tried something else which might have been more effective. I hope they might try sloshing large quantities of sea water over the pontoons next time, but I appreciate they will have to think of a way of getting it there (pressure washer with it's own tank?).
1. Should everyone who does anything carry the total responsibility for what anyone else does with it afterwards? Or should we all take responsibility for our own actions?
2. Is it good if marinas put salt on pontoons?
It is good if marinas do anything for the benefit of their customers, like attempting to de-ice pontoons with salt. But they have the option whether to do it or not. And their customers have the option whether to remain customers or not.
Whether a marina does that something or not, I believe the individual user still retains the responsibility to look after themselves when using the marina.
In the case of the marina I know, they did put rock salt on the pontoons, and I appreciate their efforts. However it didn't work, and the pontoons were very slippery. This is not to say that the marina is then culpable for the slipperiness of the pontoons. Just that they need not have bothered, or could have tried something else which might have been more effective. I hope they might try sloshing large quantities of sea water over the pontoons next time, but I appreciate they will have to think of a way of getting it there (pressure washer with it's own tank?).
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
The freezing point of sea water is typically -2C. Hosing down pontoons with sea water would run the real risk of replacing nice, obvious snow with a smooth layer of ice ... and that's the sort of thing which can get you into trouble.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be in such a rush to blame the last adminstration for this one. For example the duty of care to trespassers came in to being via the Occupiers Liability Act 1984 while Thacher was PM.
reginaldon
Well-Known Member
There was a time (early sixties) when Dover hosed the hills with sea water and then created wonderful slides for the traffic.
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Resolution
Well-Known Member
I wish I had read this yesterday! This morning I went down to my boat, tucked up for winter at Premier Swanwick, to check the heater was working and to add antifreeze to the engine coolant. The ramps down to the pontoons were nicely gritted, the pontoons were pretty dry and safe, so I was fine until I climbed up onto the deck of the boat. Horrors! A sheet of solid ice! A/T result. (But no broken bones and no spectators, so no face lost.)
But PLEASE don't let the litigation society take over yet another part of our lives. Listen to what Searush has said.