I know this is....

[Peppermint]

... a difficult subject.

This weekend must have been great for powerboaters everywhere in the south. Light winds, flat seas, sunshine and top speed sustained in comfort.

For the sailing yachty it's not so good. Low speeds and little drive means that hitting wash has a very uncomfortable effect. The sails do little to dampen the slamming about and what meager speed we have attained just vanishes as the wave effect and lack of drive from the flogging sails .

So in the spirit of fraternity that we're being encouraged, by the powers that be, to enjoy could I request a bit more room when you guys are passing in these light conditions?

What do you think? I won't tack in front of you, just for fun anymore. Honest!

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[tcm]

I do and stinky and raggi, and agree. I think a good guide is 100metres but stinkies could go anywhere and its actuially more fun to curve around, and anyway the solent is so small it would be only a minute or so extra to go another route. Spose the blimmin autopilot can take some of the blame for running straight lines everywhere, some of them a bit close to raggies or indeed any other boats.

The 100m guideline comes into it's own if you steering develops a problem: a powerboat can easily career around to use up some or all of the 100metres.

Note also tho as a raggie you only see those stinkies who come close and there need not be very many before you feel somewhat persecuted. They're doing it on purpose! There are some brainless types tho - step forward the two broom-style boats that stayed on the plane coming up through hurst narrows and all the way through the mooring trots outside yarmouth to the entrance, where they at last slowed down. Gweep.

And despite sealine being very nice people, a sometimes skipper on their training boat Alpha 1 seems to think its fine to stay on the plane up to the hamble entrance and that there is a route between sailing boats 60 yards apart. So praps they could do a bit better too imho, esopecially as a trinaing school. Then people could be a little more badly behaved as is normal without instruictor onboard and they would still be okay. Whereas if they go any closer than alpha1 they will hit things.

As i said it is only a few.

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[Wiggo]

Re: and also

Well done to the Honda Extreme 21, H5, who thought it a jolly jape to slalom through the moored boats in Osborne Bay on Saturday lunchtime.

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[Peppermint]

Re: You\'ve just reminded me

Saturday I was in the office at Shamrock Quay when we aspied a newish looking 45-50ft heading our way firmly on the plane. In fact I'd reckon somewhere between 20 & 30 knots, I was head on so it's difficult to tell. They had pre-booked for a short stay. They made a complete cod's of getting into what turned out to be the wrong berth. Most of the MDL staff then got involved in moving them with RIB and launch being involved. They appeared to be a party of young lads some of whom may well have taken a tot or two and all of whom were in a mad rush to get to St.Mary's for the kick off.

I know it's just a few but WOW! they really can do it for the others, can't they?

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[Solitaire]

You are right, it is a difficult issue. I was out instructing on a Level 2 powerboat course on both Saturday and Sunday. As you say, the conditions were ideal for powerboats, but I was also very aware of the diffuculties this causes for those under sail. I was at great pains to stress to the students the need for courtesy and awareness of the effects of wash on not only yachts, but in general. I got very peed off with a powerboat coming out of Hamble river on Saturday afternoon - he was a) exceeding the safe speed limit and b) passed so close to us that his wash actually came over the rib I was operating in. So the owner of a White Shark with a 225 Yamaha on the back - learn some basic courtesy! And the local regulations!
Conversely, there were dingies opearting who seem to take great delight in deliberately tacking acrooss the river entrance with such an air of arrogance that you think it is simply their devine right to cause problems. On the other hand there were dingies that were being extremely considerate and making no fuss at all.

There was also an incident where a yacht under power made a remark about being a sail boat and had "right of way". Perhaps a re reading of the rules is needed here!
Tolerance and understanding is required by all parties and as a member of the newly formed Portsmouth Harbour Patrol, it is our role to assist in a greater understanding of the needs of all boaters who use the sea for recreation and enjoyment.

I think it would be a good idea if forum members got together and each have a "go" on a boat outside their normal discipline so as to understand the problems faced by each other.

This is a personal view!

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[jhr]

As someone who swings both ways, I very much agree with Solitaire about MoBo types having a go on sailing boats and vice versa. It's one thing to read a posting saying that excessive wash can cause sailing boats a problem in light airs, quite another to be wallowing around in somebody's wake with all way taken off the boat. Conversely (although it's not a problem with as small a boat as mine) I think it would be an education to some raggies to discover how little control a large-ish MoBo has at low speeds - and how difficult it can be for them to stop when somebody unexpectedly puts in a tack in front of them.

If there's anybody out there with a nice Swan or similar, I'd love to do a swap /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[gjgm]

spend 5minutes in a ringo behind your boat if you want to get a shock about just how much wake your boat makes ! That will make you very aware very fast...

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[Planty]

Had an interesting "education" on Saturday going up Southampton water from Hythe to Hamble just before the refinery pontoons. OK I had got WOT and up to 35knts in an F43 however, Two sailors approaching each other approx 400mtrs apart on opposite tacks in the centre of channel, Pontoons too close on starboard to go round the back of starboard yacht, small sailing dinghies too close to port side yacht to go round stern of that one. Seajet tramping down toward Southampton in distance, so decided with plenty of time, like 800mtrs - 1000mtrs or more from them, to come off plane and creep between the bows of the two yachts at circa 6-8knots. Now here's the thing, I was amazed how much wake was created by the slow down and it certainly got us rocking, and eventually transmitted to both yachts. They didn't seem at all annoyed and it was "acceptable" I would say. OK not as bad as if I'd have just blasted on through, but even if I'd simply stopped, the slow down wake would still have got them. Truly the only way I think I could have prevented any significant subsequent wake was to have slowed a good mile back. Those that know that bit of water will know that this could happen that often that too eliminate all offending wake would render a planing hull redundant. Posts on here recently have certainly made me think far more about wash etc. not that I believe I've ever been inconsiderate, but this one did make me think, we're on a total loser to please everyone. Not that we shouldn't keep trying of course. Like the idea of a "boat swap" though, might try selling the idea to Channel 4?


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[tcm]

Re: boat swapping

a couple of the mags swapped journos. But from the pix, it was a bit windy so the wash issue didn't really arise very much.

For mobos on saily boats, you would only notice the wash in light/lightish sea and flatish sea - the solent last wekend, and you are totally at their mercy, esp worrisome when you are exactly on their nose. In a sailyboat in these circumstances i sometimes weave around a bit to make some room.

For raggies on mobos, the sailyboats hardly seem to move so it looks as tho you can pick you way nimbly and neatly thru the lot and of course you can if you wantto knockem all over the place. The place to be is far enough away that you cannot make out if they are showing one finger or two. If you can, driving at "no wash" means about 7knots and should be doable fairly smartly.

Back to your hythe-hamble trip, 800 metres separation means 400 metres each side which should be ok really. However, it ain't obligatory to plane everywhere and many professionals advocate trundling along at 9 knots for superlong range to cross biscay in one shot. In fact, with a mobo in the solent the place isn't really quite big enuf and if you rip around you're into the next harbour hardly minutes after coming out of the last.

Tv-wise, boat swap would be no good UNLESS some human interest can be injected. Huamn interest means that you are running out of money very fast, are trying to swap wives as well as boats, or are so crap at boat handling that you can guarantee a good on-camera crucnhing none of which applies which of course is very good, but tv wise, useless.

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[Solitaire]

One of the pleasures of what I do is that I get to drive a lot of powerboats, so I know the wash that can bet set up! Been on a ringo once! Came off - ouch. Nearly split me difference! Could'nt walk for a week! I now just watch!!!

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[mjf]

Interesting, at a recent dinner at a yacht club we discussed this experience thing.

I too 'swing both ways afloat' and the sailors actually asked to come on a Mobo trip with me so they could understand some of the issues.

I find that in the narrow channels around the solent harbours and indeed in the solent itself,when its busy, I alter both my speed and course to keep out of trouble with close quarter situations and to give everything the widest CPA.

Its a matter of good seamanship and courtesy surely?

Michael



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[Planty]

Re: boat swapping

Only jesting about Channel 4, but that said and to pick up your point, some of the obvious "domestics" that are going on aboard other boats, could make superb TV. Remember offering to take ropes off a lady on a biggish Sunseeker in Gunwharf recently, but she and hubby were so intent on earbashing each other I went totally unnoticed until my lads and I had to physically stop it ramming the jetty! Really good entertainment and the lasses language would require a post watershed transmission!

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[Dave_Snelson]

Hi Tom, I know exactly what you mean, but as tcm states, its a minority. I, along with other MoBo's would never knowingly spoil another persons enjoyment, whatever their craft. Personally I use the time taken in exiting and returning to Porthmadog harbour as my "soak up the scenary" time - as Porthmadog has astoundingly beautiful scenery into and out of its harbour. It would be shame to go too fast!

I think maybe North Wales is a tad quieter than the south coast but all the same, people should be afforded a wide berth unless invited

Happy sailing!

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[Peppermint]

Re: I Think part of the problem

is overlooked.

A power boat slaloming through the moorings rocks both power and sailboats. Everybody suffers. Dinghy's and racing yachts give trouble to any boater who is not confident he knows what they're up too, whether they sail or motor. Manu yotties seem unsure of the rules when under power.

Your right there's lots to learn from everybody.

If any powerboater from Southampton area wants to try a day out in a 25ft sailing boat, to see the wash from the other side so to speak,in exchange for a quid pro quo, PM me and we'll see if we can hook up.

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[Talon]

I hate the people who insist they have right of way and take it regardless of the surrounding boats. I was well within my rights to follow a course on Sunday, but due to there being too many boats, some sail, some power, I chose to slow down and carefully find a sensible route through them all to keep the wash down and make it easier for other people to know what I was donig plenty of white siding!

I managed to get some waves of thanks from a couple of sailing boats. So I must have been doing well /forums/images/icons/smile.gif



<hr width=100% size=1>Alex

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mad-als.com>http://www.mad-als.com</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: boat tv

they wd need to find crews that were praps going on a decent trip and/or had reasonable enuf crew to go places but not so good that nothing went wrong like when someone chucks out a line which falls in the water and so they chuck the other end and the whole lot sinks and then they have no line and plenty of earbashing ensues ...er actually best forget the TV thing.

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[Solitaire]

"Its a matter of good seamanship and courtesy surely?

Could not agree more! Just plain common sense as well. While undergoing pratical training with the VHP the other weekend, I was in fact tasked to assist a yacht which had a problem in the mouth of Portsmouth Harbour - fouled prop. I had to tow him in through the entrance and while doing so, a very large motor cruiser "failed" to cut his wash while coming in past us - set up a hell of a difficult situation. It appeared to be completly oblivious to the fact I was towing a yacht and that another boat was standing off with blue lights flashing! This boat not only showed bad seamanship, but a total lack of courtesy!

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[whisper]

It's not quite as simple as just slowing down to say 8 or 9knts though is it? It will vary from boat to boat. If I'd been coming past you at 8knts you would have been justified in being unhappy as in our boat, speeds of between 7 and 10 knts produce a huge and steep wake. We need to slow down to no more than 6knts or even less if against the tide to produce a far more gentle wake. On the other hand increasing speed to 12knts plus has a similar effect, but other boaters are under the false impression that a big wake is being created. It's really a case of knowing one's boat and looking behind you regularly to see what effect you are having. I've regularly followed people down the estuary for 10 mins. or so and the person on the helm hasn't looked behind them once.
OK, so it's because I'm really ugly /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Solitaire]

100% aqree and it goes back to my original comment about common sense! It's not rocket science!

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[jwatson]

Re: You\'ve just reminded me

It was one of the players and he had to get changed before kick-off....

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