I dare: an anchor / windlass / chain thread

[Tintin]

I can hear the collective groans from some but...

Yacht is a beneteau first 325. Currently I have about 60m of 10mm chain - happy with the anchor, spade type, so trying to avoid that discussion.

I have no windlass, and I think I may have finally worked out where and how to fit a horizontal one, which I'm keen to do as I mostly sail singlehanded, and control from the cockpit would make life a lot easier.

Am just wondering if I should drop down to 8mm chain. It's a reasonably light boat.

Whatcha think?

 

[pvb]

You're brave.....

 

[Catalina36]

60m of 10mm in a 32 foot boat is a lot of weight in the bow. I'm 36 foot and originally had 50m of 10mm but reduced it to 30m with 100m of 18mm octoplait. I always lay out all the chain plus whatever is needed of the rope. I'd stick with the 10mm chain for the weight rather than 8mm but shorten it, it'll be cheaper than replacing the lot.

 

[roaringgirl]

My boat is 40ft & 12T she has 10mm chain and has circumnavigated, so presumably has spent a decent amount of time at anchor. 10mm chain has probably been sufficient otherwise she wouldn't be here now. You're going to be alright with 8mm.

 

[Norman_E]

8mm chain would be fine for a boat your size and displacement. The decision whether to replace your 100mm chain with 8mm or cut it down and add a rope rode depends on two things. Firstly is your existing chain in good condition or old and rusty? Secondly do you really want a chain plus rope setup? With an electric windlass I am happy to have an all chain setup and put up with the weight, but 60metres of chain plus a new windlass is a great deal of weight for the bows of a 32 foot boat. If your chain is good I would try the chain plus octoplait idea, but would want to be certain that your chosen combination will work reliably with the windlass and gypsy you choose. I question whether you need a total of 130 metres of rode. My suggestion would be a bit less chain, say 25 metres plus about 45 or 50 metres of rope, which still gives you more than your current 60 metres, with a weight saving that will be greater than the added weight of a windlass.

 

[Boathook]

I would change it to 8mm chain at what ever length you want. A lot of rope seems to struggle with feeding through a windlass imho.

 

[Neeves]

If you intend keeping the yacht for a good few years - I would add the electric windlass. It sounds as if you cope with the current 10mm chain but sadly we all get older and retrieving 10mm chain by hand will become hard work (or impossible) It would be sad if you had to give up sailing if you could not retrieve the rode.

8mm will be fine on a 32' yacht - I'm constantly amazed at the amount (weight) of chain) that people carry - what were they thinking of when they commissioned her. A relatively light yacht carrying all the weight - she must sail like an old dog.

8mm chain will save weight and space. The windlass will be cheaper and use less power. Modern windlass handle rope and chain well but if you add rope to the mix it is inevitable you will increase corrosion as the locker will always be damp. Once you decide on which chain you will use, 8mm or 10mm, you are then 'locked in' as the gypsy determines the chain (unless you buy a new gypsy).

You should be able to install the windlass your self - if you are handy - its not difficult. Look at similar yachts to see how they have installed. You can install foot switches, a control at the helm and maybe better a remote,

We are weight conscious, we have a 38' cat 7t fully laden, we use 75m x High Tensile 6mm chain, aluminium anchors One of which is a Spade (not a spade type) and a Maxwell windlass RC8-6.

Don't be afraid to initiate threads with the word anchor in the title.

Know how: Ground Tackle.

The art of snubbing, in the nicest possible way - MySailing.com.au

How to boomerang your anchor right back at you - MySailing.com.au

Jonathan

 

[LittleSister]

control from the cockpit would make life a lot easier.

I have cockpit (well, wheelhouse actually) control of my windlass, but often find I need to go to the bow to see the direction or angle of the chain in the course of retrieving the anchor. For that purpose I have bought a cheap (about £12?) remote control off eBay on the advice of others, but not yet fitted it. I'm told there's a slight delay in the switching with these cheap units, but quite manageable.

 

[Catalina36]

I have cockpit (well, wheelhouse actually) control of my windlass, but often find I need to go to the bow to see the direction or angle of the chain in the course of retrieving the anchor. For that purpose I have bought a cheap (about £12?) remote control off eBay on the advice of others, but not yet fitted it. I'm told there's a slight delay in the switching with these cheap units, but quite manageable.

I got round that by hanging a couple of cheap CCTV cameras at the bow when raising or lowering, one looking in the chain locker and the other down over the stem, so I can see what's going no from the wheel. 5 and 10 metre marks on the chain and rope can be seen, so I know how much is being laid out. Analogue TVL cameras work with an analogue Raymarine plotter without needing a recorder to decode the signal.

 

[doug748]

I can hear the collective groans from some but...

Yacht is a beneteau first 325. Currently I have about 60m of 10mm chain - happy with the anchor, spade type, so trying to avoid that discussion.

I have no windlass, and I think I may have finally worked out where and how to fit a horizontal one, which I'm keen to do as I mostly sail singlehanded, and control from the cockpit would make life a lot easier.

Am just wondering if I should drop down to 8mm chain. It's a reasonably light boat.

Whatcha think?

As Norman E says, if the 10mm chain is in questionable condition that would seal it.

However I think I would go down to 8mm anyways. 10mm is a bit rich for the boat and the 100lbs you could save would make up for the extra weight of the winch gear. You might go down to 50m to save a bit more weight but if you are thinking of a big trip, I wouldn't. If the 10mm stuff is good you might get £100 for it so that would help.

.

 

[duncan99210]

If it was my boat, I’d be dumping the 10mm chain and replacing with an all chain rode in 8mm, along with an electric windlass. My boat is a 40 foot boat, has 8mm chain and a Lofrans windlass: I’ve found it to be as near to perfect as any solution I’ve come across. I’ve sat out 60 knot winds, spend most of the summer at anchor and find its so labour unintensive that the Admiral happily does most of the anchor work. I’ve never really figured out why folks are so fixated on needing heavy chain: it’s the anchor that holds the boat, so chain that’s bigger than needed to take the working loads of the boat at anchor is worthless.

 

[Stemar]

As Norman E says, if the 10mm chain is in questionable condition that would seal it.

However I think I would go down to 8mm anyways. 10mm is a bit rich for the boat and the 100lbs you could save would make up for the extra weight of the winch gear. You might go down to 50m to save a bit more weight but if you are thinking of a big trip, I wouldn't. If the 10mm stuff is good you might get £100 for it so that would help.

.

Another vote to go down a size, and get a windlass that can handle chain and rope without faffing about. That way, even 30m of chain would have you using all chain most of the time, and you can add all the rope you need for deep water anchoring. As far as I can see, unless you're anchoring on coral or something similar, which will eat the rope, there's little advantage to carrying a lot of chain, and many disadvantages.

 

[Tintin]

Thanks all, good advice.

The 10mm has probably got another season or two max, so a change to 8mm doesn't faze me at all.

I may drop to 40m plus octaplait as that would seem to be enough chain to help hold her, and as was pointed out, for deeper anchoring I can always add more rope.

I'll be going with either footswitches or a remote at the bow. I quite like the idea of the RF remotes from ebay. I have had a few occasions in other boats where the footswitches fail or get caught by accident.

What sort of backing plate would you suggest for the windlass? It's a regular balsa core deck.

 

[De.windhoos]

Thanks all, good advice.

The 10mm has probably got another season or two max, so a change to 8mm doesn't faze me at all.

I may drop to 40m plus octaplait as that would seem to be enough chain to help hold her, and as was pointed out, for deeper anchoring I can always add more rope.

I'll be going with either footswitches or a remote at the bow. I quite like the idea of the RF remotes from ebay. I have had a few occasions in other boats where the footswitches fail or get caught by accident.

What sort of backing plate would you suggest for the windlass? It's a regular balsa core deck.

I have both footswitch and remote. Because of the shape and size of the chain locker I need to flake by hand when raising the anchor, so I use the footswitch. And when dropping the anchor I use the remote.

A nice sturdy and large steel plate. Ideally, I would remove the balsa under the windlass and replace it with plywood, or saturate the part of the balsa with epoxy to account for compression.

 

[dunedin]

Yes.

[Apologies if that is too short for an anchor thread ]

 

[Neeves]

Your new windlass will come with a cutting termplate, or should do. It might also come with recommended wire sizing - if not ask here. You will need a breaker switch. The most difficult task might be feeding the cables from the battery bank - its requires little skill but a lot of patience. As Dewindhoos suggests a study plate of stainless would do the job. I'd not remove the balsa, in total, but simply over drill and fill the holes (location dictated by template) with epoxy You will need big hole in the 'middle' for the shaft - it will need to be coated also with epoxy. But maybe this is what De.windhoos meant. Removing all the balsa seems to involve a bit of structural work to secure the ply. I might use the plate underneath and add a layer of heavy duty glass on the top side.

I did not quite understand your mention of a 'remote' at the bow - you mean one on a cable? If you are thinking of single handing - I'd not discount the switch at the helm. I'm not sure I would rely on a remote off eBay - alone. I'd want some sort of switch, somewhere. A helm switch will allow you to retrieve and manage the yacht. You don't need to fully retreive but simply get it off the bottom allowing you to move to somewhere with less obstacles - and you can complete retrieval at the bow without fear of being driven onto something hard. Foot switches are quite expensive, for what they are. A helm switch should be cheaper (we have both and no remote).

Jonathan

'Yes' is very acceptable - except - 'yes' to what?

 

[Norman_E]

Where are you thinking of mounting the windlass? Fitting one to a balsa cored deck is no easy job, and you need to consider that a windlass can be subjected to considerable forces that are trying to pull it off. Your boat has a long narrow anchor locker and the only windlass mounting place appears to be a stout shelf fitted inside the locker, or is that the sloping rear face of the locker? If it is I would want it reinforced with a large thick plywood backing plate to spread the loads. I found this boat for sale, with a picture of an installed horizontal windlass. 1985 Beneteau First 325 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

 

[Tintin]

Where are you thinking of mounting the windlass? Fitting one to a balsa cored deck is no easy job, and you need to consider that a windlass can be subjected to considerable forces that are trying to pull it off. Your boat has a long narrow anchor locker and the only windlass mounting place appears to be a stout shelf fitted inside the locker, or is that the sloping rear face of the locker? If it is I would want it reinforced with a large thick plywood backing plate to spread the loads. I found this boat for sale, with a picture of an installed horizontal windlass. 1985 Beneteau First 325 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

Thanks for that link, it's a position I considered and yes it it the sloping rear of the locker. (Pic below)

My concern with this arrangement, and why I have discarded it is that a) its a damp environment in an anchor locker, b) ease of access for maintenance and sorting any problems out, and c) the lack of drop for the chain.

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the anchor locker doors, essentially creating a panel on the rear 2/5th that is fixed in place to mount the windlass on, and fabricating shortened doors from the old full length ones.

Simpler would be to go with a vertical windlass mounted just aft of the anchor locker, which means it will protrude into the fwd cabin, but with the chain then dropping directly into the locker. The con to this is of course intrusion into the fwd cabin, but the plus is that I don't have to mess around with the locker doors.

I actually ran the wiring to the fwd cabin from the battery 5 years ago when I refitted the electrics, with half the leisure bank of batteries now under the stbd seating in the main cabin. (I have a total of 660ah in 6 x 110 batteries, 3 aft and 3 in this location - reason for so much is kids, tvs, game toys etc...)

On controls, am thinking a wired remote from the anchor locker, a switch near the helm, and an ebay remote. I find the autopilot wireless remote really useful, and having redundancy with the switching seems to make sense.

 

[alahol2]

Smaller boat and only a manual windlass but our anchor locker is very similar to that shown. Only thing I'd add to the discussion is that a windlass mounted aft of the locker will cause the chain to pile up against the bulkhead and require it to be cleared regularly during the lift. Ideally you want the chain to fall into the deepest part. Ours doesn't and it's a pain.

 

[Norman_E]

The problem with that boat is that it really was not designed with any provision to fit a windlass. If you don't want the windlass in the locker then my suggestion is to shorten the locker lid and fit the windlass onto a new and properly reinforced bridging piece glassed in to the rear of the locker opening. You can then mount this sort of windlass above deck level withe the chain dropping into the deepest part of the locker, and without having to cut into a cored deck. Lewmar Pro Series Windlass 1000: Horizontal Windlass Kit