Hydrovane

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Brabs

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folks,
i am Looking for some advice on the old hydrovane. looking at fitting one on my westerly 33 ketch, were is the best place to source one, are they easy to fit, and are they suitable for a westerly 33, or can someone recommend a good auto pilot
 
I have had Hydrovane steering on two boats, a 35 foot steel Gaff Cutter and a Nicholson 32. I fitted the gear myself on both boats. On the first occasion I ordered the gear via the Hydrovane website..But..Hydrovane at that time was owned in England, later it moved to Canada. I went and collected the second set of steering gear at point of manufacture in a small engineering shop in Nottingham, later as stated the ownership of Hydrovane became Canadian although...I think, manufacturing was still done in England.
I used the gear to cruise single handed on both boats over the years, including Canaries to the Us Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico in both boats, plus all the touristy bits, Antigua, St Kitts etc; in between.
In my opinion the Hydrovane gear is second to none and steered my boats for many thousands of miles.
Prior to fitting in a Sussex Boat Yard.


Some months later down on the Algarve, Portimao anchorage I think, or it may have been round in La Linea, not sure now.


On the 12 ton steel Gaff Cutter, which the Hydrovane steered better than I could...:LOL:
Anchorage somewhere in the Cyclades.

The usual advice...Measure carefully before drilling...but fitting to both steel and GRP I managed, alone, quite easily, taking it slowly and don't be afraid to contact Hydrovane for advice, I found them really helpful

As already advised...Once under sail and the boat balanced, a Tiller Pilot steered the Gaff Cutter so well I used to panic and fiddle with the main Tiller to put the boat off course just to make sure the Hydrovane was actually working..:D
 
There is a significant difference between a good electric autopilot and a windvane system such as the Hydrovane. The wind powered system acts more as a trim tab to keep the boat on course so you need to balance the sail plan for the point of sailing. It will struggle to handle a badly balanced boat/sail plan. That said I have used windvane systems on the last five of my boats and would not be without one.
The tip for a tiller pilot driving the hydrovane rudder makes for a very low power consumption autopilot when motoring. I used it on the original Windpilot system that also had an auxiliary rudder (sadly no longer available).
 
Brabs said:
folks,
i am Looking for some advice on the old hydrovane. looking at fitting one on my westerly 33 ketch, were is the best place to source one, are they easy to fit, and are they suitable for a westerly 33, or can someone recommend a good auto pilot
Click to expand...
Really depends on how you intend to use the boat. An autopilot is much more versatile and easier to use as it will steer to a course or to wind and work under motor. Just press a button and it does what you want. A windvane comes into its own for long distance passage making under sail and has the big advantage of using no power. Most people who do mixed shorter distance cruising fit an autopilot and add a windvane if going long distance.
 
I bought ours in 2011 but didn't get round to fitting it until 2015. I spoke to them and they said they had upgraded the rudder since 2011, the later being slightly better balanced. They gave me a new one exchanged for old FOC...... very good company to deal with. I found incline the vane worked better on ours. Friends say the stubby is better.
 
You'll struggle to find a 2nd hand one. If you do.... get it cheap. You'll have to change stuff. In particular, a new type shaft with a center bearing. The old ones were prone to failure. All the screws are SS in Al casting. They'll all be seized. You have to do some reengineering. If you do, Helicoil everything and you'll have a better than factory-new product.

If you add a tiller pilot get the beefier one, make the lever long and don't expect a lot of rudder movement.

Fitting's easy. See HV's video tutorials.

The folks are very helpful... even if you need advice on a used HV.

If the 2nd hand one hasn't got the brackets to fit your boat you need to account for buying new ones. They're expensive. See here
1675878706688.png
 
I fitted mine to a stern with curves in two directions. No way was I going to get hardwood to fit properly. I fitted the vane temporarily and made up some thick epoxy and filler and put this into a plastic bag and then put the bag between the vane support and the hull. When it went hard it just needed cleaned up a bit and was a perfect fit to the hull. Then did the other support.

I bought mine second hand. I have since been told by several people that they never use theirs so would sell on. Maybe worth asking around if the vane is for sale.

I have a wheelpilot but it can't hold the boat to a course except under engine.
 
Tranona said:
Really depends on how you intend to use the boat. An autopilot is much more versatile and easier to use as it will steer to a course or to wind and work under motor. Just press a button and it does what you want. A windvane comes into its own for long distance passage making under sail and has the big advantage of using no power. Most people who do mixed shorter distance cruising fit an autopilot and add a windvane if going long distance.
Click to expand...
Whether deliberate or not, your comment "seems" to suggest that a wind vane is less suitable for short trips. If so, I would dispute that. I often use my Aeries whilst sailing in the Blackwater. Takes 3 minutes to set up at the start of a trip. Then can be engaged at ease when under way. About the same time as it takes to get my autopilot on deck & plug it in & turn on the electrics. I do accept that I still use the autopilot for motoring ( unless it is quite windy, in which case the Aeries does work OK)
 
michael_w said:
If you want a vane gear that works under all conditions buy a Monitor.
Click to expand...
My current boat came with an Aries, I had a second hand Monitor on my previous boat. Aries manual "oil every day" Monitor manual "do not oil". I kept the Monitor and sold the Aries.

Daydream believer said:
Whether deliberate or not, your comment "seems" to suggest that a wind vane is less suitable for short trips. If so, I would dispute that.
Click to expand...
The first time I used the Monitor was in a narrow channel amongst the islands a couple of hours from my home port. I had intended to play with it first in open water. However, I was single handed with gusty winds that the wheelpilot could not manage. I quicky dropped the paddle and fitted the vane, got the boat back on course, feathered the vane, locked the wheel clutch and sat back.

I have happily use my vane gears for an evening sail, an ocean passage, and everything in between. Electric wheel pilot is only used when motoring.
 
Have not used a hydrovane but I would expect that you would need a boat that is directionally stable to start with. One sets the helm & clamps it. The boat sails the course & the hydrovane then applies small movements to correct that course. If the helm needs a large course correction then I cannot see it working. I do know of some who say that when the boat surfs down a wave the helm needs greater correction than the hydrovane can give . That can happen with a modern short finned lighter boat
If one has a heavier displacement long keel boat, then that should not be an issue if directionally stable.
However, I have not tried one so I suggest that one needs to study first. I would go for a monitor or a windpilot. I have spoken to lots of owners with both & they get good reports. Hydrovane do not & a lot seem to be unused on the back of boats in ports.
 
Daydream believer said:
Have not used a hydrovane but I would expect that you would need a boat that is directionally stable to start with.
Click to expand...
I suspect that you are right.

The original Windpilot used a semi balanced rudder as does the Hydrovane, only with a much simpler vane/rudder linkage. I had two of those Windpilots, both on pre IOR boats with directionaly stable hull forms and they worked very well. About 20 years ago I wanted another one and contacted Windpilot to see if they still made them as all their models then used servo pendulums. The response was that they had stopped making the original as modern boats needed much more powerful vane gears.

Incidentally, I improved the performance of my vane driven rudder by fitting a 3cm wide "fence" around the waterline to prevent it sucking an air vortex down the lee side when near full over. This would also work on the Hydrovane rudder.
 
michael_w said:
If you want a vane gear that works under all conditions buy a Monitor. Hydrovane is a complete POS, IMHO. I've been shipmates with both, plus Wind Pilot. The Monitor is vastly superior to both. You pays your money and takes your choice ....
Click to expand...

It’s daft to say that the Hydrovane is a PoS when so many yachts have successfully circumnavigated with one.
 
michael_w said:
If you want a vane gear that works under all conditions buy a Monitor. Hydrovane is a complete POS, IMHO. I've been shipmates with both, plus Wind Pilot. The Monitor is vastly superior to both. You pays your money and takes your choice ....
Click to expand...
You may want to look at the Golden Globe finishers of the last event; Hydrovane was very highly rated.

I finally got to play with a Hydrovane between A Coruña and Falmouth in August 2022. After 15 minutes 'faffing about' with the kit it steered all the way (apart from a quick trip to the pub at Ushant).
 
Well I’ve been shipmates with both Hy and Mo on previous boats
( I won’t say how much I paid for the Hy but they were unfashionable at the time and it was missing the vane and a plastic cover , )
And before that I fitted a stainless Haslar to a boat with continuous weatherhelm and sailed that a lot -
I built my own version of a super Hy, with trim tab and a hinge up rudder assembly and that was ( in its mark4 or mark 8 tweak version )- simply awesome.
But they’re all good for the job and all ocean proven.

I hope the OP finds something that works for him.

I think the Windpilot would be a pretty smart choice too - and my only steer ( see that ?🤪) is that if buying new then that is the one I would consider first next time around .. they’re beautifully made and continually evolved ..
 
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