Hydranet

[Slowtack]

I am looking at replacing my roller headsail with a hydranet triradial. I dont race these days but I like to point as high as possible and get good boatspeed. My current headsail is a well worn composite with leech cracks, some delamination and bad mildew patches. New sail is a big investment for me in overall boat budget terms. 10m boat, fractional rig, 11.4m headsail luff, headsail area 30sqm. All the reviews on hydranet seem to be positive. Anybody had any problems or suggetions on specification?

 

[Slowtack]

So far so good!

 

[Robin]

I'm a big fan of Hydranet. We had a Hydranet tri-radial roller genoa and a Hydranet tri-radial fully battened main on our last boat, both made superbly by Crusader. The genoa was bought in 2001/2 and was still like new after 7 seasons and around 12,000mls. The main was a year younger and every bit as good. These were on a Jeanneau Sun Legende 41 cruiser/racer which had a tall rig, large sail area and high sail loads.

 

[Yacht Yogi]

Hydranet Main

I bought a Hydranet Mainsail last winter for a First 27.7. It is radial cut and was made by Crusader at Poole. I wanted something that would give me the shape and control of the previous laminated racing mainsail but would be much more durable to use for mixed cruising and racing. I was prepared to accept that the Hydranet would be a little heavier than the laminate but reasoned that it was not all that big and I probably wouldn't notice any affects from the weight.

Initially the new main was very much stiffer than the old one and it took me some time and a couple of call-outs to the sailmaker before I was able to get it into a reasonable shape while sailing. Now we have got the hang of it we are getting a very nice and controllable shape. After a season of strong winds and often racing with a reef in it I am glad to have a tough material as it has been taking quite a beating and I am sure a laminate sail would have suffered some damage. Indeed our laminated fore-sails are all showing some damage now.

I am very happy with the Hydranet main sail. In our case I might not choose a Hydranet jib because we have a selection of fore-sails and just swap to the appropriate one for the conditions. We do have roller reefing on the jib so if I was forced to have just one jib and to reef it by furling then I think that Hydranet would be a good option.

At this stage I would say that I would always choose Hydranet over Dacron or any other woven material for a sail that I intended to use every day and especially over laminate if I was going to sail with it reefed or furled.

Having said all that, I have only been using it for one season so my thoughts on long-term durability are based on speculation.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have no experience of Hydranet but considered it for both sails on Snowbird. Instead I choose sails from North in Radian, the only Dacron (North says) built specifically for tri-radial stress paths. They look good, have a great shape, are very tuneable and pull like a train. Not saying that Hydranet wouldn't have been as good but you might like to look at the North/Radian option even if only to have some comparison with another top-notch Dacron.

 

[snooks]

We've had Hydranet for two seasons now and they are still the same as when the went on the boat, lovely and crisp, and they have had a bit of use.

Only down side is that you'll need to upgrade your halyards as they will stretch before the sail does, unless you already have dyneema.

 

[Plevier]

I've just been choosing for a boat of same size. Genoa about 11.8m luff 27sq m - quite high aspect ratio.
Advice from all sailmakers I spoke to was Hydranet not worth it on this size unless the sails are going to be used really intensively i.e. constant cruising in all weathers.
Also got Snooks's point about Dyneema halyards.
Various alternatives suggested, I've gone for Marblehead which I think is the best plain Dacron you can get. (Advice from several places, including Challenge sailcloth, was that a specific high aspect weave might give a marginally better shape when new but would deteriorate quicker.) Hesitated over DP Square as alternative but why do you want a ripstop thread in a heavy fabric? Seems a bit gimmicky to me.
So in my view your choice depends not just on performance requirements but on the amount of use you're going to give it - you haven't said.
I have a friend with Arun Hydranet sails on a 42ft boat, quite heavily used (but not blue water) and raced, they are now looking a bit tired at 10 yrs old but not bad.

 

[bedouin]

It is worth giving some thought to Vektron / Vectran.

I went through the process of choosing a new sail a year or so back and came to the conclusion that the Vektron was the most appropriate choice for a good performance cruising sail. I don't remember the details of the pros/cons but it seemed like the obvious choice at the time.

Should have the shape holding qualities of a Laminate plus a longevity that is much better than Dacron.

I use Peter Sanders to make my sails.

 

[snooks]

Hesitated over DP Square as alternative but why do you want a ripstop thread in a heavy fabric? Seems a bit gimmicky to me.

Dp square isn't rip stop, the square patten is from thicker yarns weaved in at regular intervals to give the Dacron fabric greater stability in both directions. The thicker yarns are stronger and more stress resistant than the yarns used to weave the body of the cloth.

 

[Slowtack]

Many thanks for all your well considered advice. My annual sailing mileage is rather low at present but I am planning for a change in that. Over a period of years the cost differential between Dacron and Hydranet is not huge and the durability + mildew aspect are signifiant factors in my decision as well as shape consistency and performance. I wil also need to replace the main in the next year or two and am aiming for a system that will take some hardship and give good performance and reliable service over the longer term. I am veering towards Hydranet for all the reasons above and I have yet to hear from anybody who, having used it, is greatly dissapointed with it.

 

[Plevier]

Dp square isn't rip stop, the square patten is from thicker yarns weaved in at regular intervals to give the Dacron fabric greater stability in both directions. The thicker yarns are stronger and more stress resistant than the yarns used to weave the body of the cloth.

From DP brochure:

"These premium polyester styles deliver top performance for off-threadline loads. SQUARE® styles, unique in several respects, are easily identified by
the RIPSTOP pattern woven into the substrate, using either 500 or 1,000 denier yarns paired in both the warp and fill direction. The
RIPSTOP YARNS create an extremely rugged fabric"

As these yarns are of the same material as the other thinner yarns, I can't see that they are stronger and more stress resistant in the context of the whole cloth. It's just a different distribution of the same amount of the same material.

Hydranet works because you are reinforcing it with a grid of a stronger, stiffer material, not the case with Square. I have no doubt that Square is an extremely good fabric, all DP stuff is, I just can't see a real advantage in this construction.

On the downside, DP competitors have suggested (a) the thick fibres will produce bigger crimps in the warp fibres, reducing bias stability (b) it's just marketing riding on the back of Hydranet when it really doesn't bear comparison and (c) the uneven surface could detach the airflow sooner. I find (a) and (b) plausible, not sure about (c) as I doubt if most sails operate in a laminar flow condition. It's conceivable that it could even help to delay detachment in the same way some wings use turbulators.

The fabric I'm going for (Marblehead 7.77) is 300 denier warp and 440 fill. I believe Square is 250 x 250 but that's not official, DP don't tell you that on the website, they give less detail than other manufacturers. If you go down to 5.77 in the Marblehead, that's 220 x 220, suggesting the Square is lighter between the heavy threads than it would be otherwise.

It would be nice to hear from an independent expert if there is such a thing! Also any happy or unhappy users. I've had to form my view by sifting possibly biased opinions.

I do note there isn't a rush to copy Square, only Bainbridge has something a bit similar (but cheaper and less well regarded I think).

 

[snooks]

As these yarns are of the same material as the other thinner yarns, I can't see that they are stronger and more stress resistant in the context of the whole cloth.

Same principle as different thickness ropes, same material, the thicker the stronger. Think of it as a grid of thicker yarns that take all the load.

I don't know whether it works, I went for the hydranet which I know does.

 

[Plevier]

Think of it as a grid of thicker yarns that take all the load.

Sorry Snooks I think that is invalid for Square. It's valid for Hydranet because the thick yarns are of higher modulus and higher strength material than the others i.e. Dyneema vs Dacron. In Square they are the same material. Also in Hydranet the strong yarns are much more numerous.

All the yarns in Square will operate at the same stress level and the great bulk of the total load will actually be in the small yarns because there are many times more of them. The 1000d yarn is only equivalent to 4 of the 250d yarns (denier being an area related measurement) and in the pic on the leaflet http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Square_E.pdf it looks like about 50 thin to each pair of thick, so only 15% of the load will be going into the big yarns (AFAICS).

I still can't see an engineering benefit in this construction but would love to hear of one. It looks sexy hi-tech though!

 

[wilkinsonsails]

As a manufacturer and repairer for the last 35 years.I must say the fabric with consistent quality and durability has always been the main component of choice for our long distance cruising sails ,unfortunately I would not recommend D P square for the above reasons.
On the other hand both Marblehead ,Contender super cruise and Hydranet alll perform very well ,but Hydranet is somewhat dearer than the other two .
Cindy

 

[Plevier]

That's interesting thank you Cindy.
I'm quite surprised but anyway I'm happy to have my Marblehead on order!