JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
New link coming by 2022, apparently. And making hydrogen is still daft - there are plenty of other chemicals they could make if they wanted. Maybe house a few data centres.
HyDIME - The way for the future?
- Thread starter LadyInBed
- Start date
New link coming by 2022, apparently. And making hydrogen is still daft - there are plenty of other chemicals they could make if they wanted. Maybe house a few data centres.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That'll be with heat recovery as well, which isn't an option for applications like cars.
ross84
Well-Known Member
There is one human activity that causes more pollution than ships, cars,planes and trucks put together. It is of course eating meat. Most of the forest clearing is for planting animal feed or grazing. Even gorillas don't eat meat other than a few termites. It is an incredibly wasteful form of nourishment that our bodies are not even designed for. Why do us humans keep walking round the subject and playing about with things like hydrogen ?
I'm trying to give it up. It's easier than giving up smoking
amen to this!
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
There is one human activity that causes more pollution than ships, cars,planes and trucks put together. It is of course eating meat. Most of the forest clearing is for planting animal feed or grazing. Even gorillas don't eat meat other than a few termites. It is an incredibly wasteful form of nourishment that our bodies are not even designed for. Why do us humans keep walking round the subject and playing about with things like hydrogen ?
I'm trying to give it up. It's easier than giving up smoking
No need to stop eating meat, just be sure its grown the right way. Grass fed beef is a carbon sink, it grows on land that is not suitable for any other sort of agriculture.
Humans are designed to eat meat, just look at the meat slicing teeth we have.
So, theres the other side of the argument. Wheres the truth?
The truth is humans eat too much crap meat that is grown in a stupid way.
The truth is a small amount of meat is what we have evolved to eat, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 lb per week.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
Designed?
Compare and contrast with that of actual carnivores (see large pointy teeth around the side and very small teeth at the front...unless you're a shark of course). The front two teeth are far more similar to rodents, the rear most teeth most similar to cows with only the canines remaining. Meat isn't something we're 'designed' for and if we were designed at all, please point me in the direction of said designer so that I can sack them for making such a shoddy piece of workmanship.
As for getting people to eat just one 1/4lb burger a week... you'd think we were trying to sell their first born.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant nitpicking and you know it. Designed, devolved, suited to all the bloody same. We have canines and they do one thing best, thats eat meat. the rest follows.
alancollins
Well-Known Member
It was meat-eating that gave homo sapiens the energy to enable us to do useful things like building shelters instead of spending all day grazing on low calorie foods.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying we can't eat meat or shouldn't eat meat, we *can* eat most things, whether we should be putting *most things* into our body is a different kettle of fish. We don't run most efficiently on meat but as part of a balanced diet (see Lon's post earlier) it can indeed still be useful.
As for back then, meat wasn't on the menu as we know it today. They were eating fatty liver and storing bone marrow. The lean meats we see today, they'd ignore (as animals tend to ignore when fed a whole carcass). We simply do not need those calories anymore. If anything more people need to start eating carrot sticks >_>. (Not for environmental reasons, but for general health).
Back to topic at hand.
I don't think we can say one solution is better than any other. I think whatever we do, we simply need to move away from fossil fuels. If some people want to invest in hydrogen and storing excess energy for use later that's great (because we produce excess renewable energy that can't otherwise be used and we end up turning renewable sources off). If we some people want to invest purely in solar/tidal that too is great. Or even carbon capture. They're all parts of the puzzle and have a role to play.
And taking 30% of diesel out of boats sounds to me like a great idea. It's not perfect, but it's better than our current set up.
As for back then, meat wasn't on the menu as we know it today. They were eating fatty liver and storing bone marrow. The lean meats we see today, they'd ignore (as animals tend to ignore when fed a whole carcass). We simply do not need those calories anymore. If anything more people need to start eating carrot sticks >_>. (Not for environmental reasons, but for general health).
Back to topic at hand.
I don't think we can say one solution is better than any other. I think whatever we do, we simply need to move away from fossil fuels. If some people want to invest in hydrogen and storing excess energy for use later that's great (because we produce excess renewable energy that can't otherwise be used and we end up turning renewable sources off). If we some people want to invest purely in solar/tidal that too is great. Or even carbon capture. They're all parts of the puzzle and have a role to play.
And taking 30% of diesel out of boats sounds to me like a great idea. It's not perfect, but it's better than our current set up.
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knuterikt
Well-Known Member
All hydrogen stations in Norway are still closed after this explosion, owners of hydrogen cars are not amused at all.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/12/norway-hydrogen-station-explodes-toyota-hyundai-halt-sales/
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/12/norway-hydrogen-station-explodes-toyota-hyundai-halt-sales/
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
Old news that was back in june. There's been no further information since it seems.
Further research, valve not installed properly. Of course, if you don't install things properly in electric pumps or petrol pumps...well, things go boom pretty quickly.
" The hydrogen deployment around the world has been done in a safe manner although some incidents have been reported. There was a significant setback for the Norwegian hydrogen industry when a hydrogen station in Sandvika exploded in June this year. The root cause of the incident was a leakage from a valve that had not been installed according to procedures. All other stations were shut down as a result and the leading player in the deployment of hydrogen stations, UNO X seems reluctant to proceed with further hydrogen projects until the situation is further investigated." https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/hydrogen-in-norway/75014/
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Cantata
Well-Known Member
Another possible stepping stone to 'the future' might be a Shell-developed product, GTL (Gas To Liquid). This is an alternative diesel fuel made from natural gas, burns cleaner than diesel and doesn't contain FAME. A friend in the industry tells me that its wholesale price is cheaper than diesel, too.
https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/natural-gas/gas-to-liquids.html
https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/natural-gas/gas-to-liquids.html
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
When will Shell learn -_-. We're going to have to move away from those products, the problem is the emissions. It's not even a stepping stone it's just shell trying to cling to an old business model.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Hydrogen is awkward stuff to handle for all sorts of reasons. For a start, the molecules are so light they'll diffuse their way through all sorts of things you'd think might be gas tight. If it does catch fire, the flame is invisible. And liquid hydrogen is horrible - by far the most dangerous of all the cryogenic gases. It used to be used a lot for intermediate cooling (20K) between nitrogen (77K) and helium (4.2K), not least because it has a far higher enthalpy of vaporisation than helium. However, most labs using it for this blew up with depressing regularity and by the time I was playing with cold stuff, almost thirty years ago, only Harwell (or maybe it was the Rutherford Lab) were still nominally equipped to use it - and that meant remote control and blast walls.
