HVO

[chubby]

Is anyone using HVO for a seagoing yacht and any problems and can you get it in sensible quantities? I have been recommended New Era fuels who advertise 200 litre barrels or 20 litre fuel boxes on their website. I am wanting to avoid diesel bug problems, Or in practice it is easier to just use a big volume supplier of marine diesel and add an additive: I use Gosport Marina and a dose of Marine16 and use a moderate amount in the season so have been OK so far.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

No, I have not used it. Interested in opinions though. I have reasonably large fuel tanks, one decommissioned, I tend to fill up once every season and half. Apparently HVO is not FAME and it can be stored for 10 years.

The below details are from Crown Oil

What is HVO fuel?​

Crown HVO (hydrotreated vegetable oil) is a premium, high quality diesel fuel made from renewable, sustainable raw materials – all which do not release any new CO2 into the atmosphere.

HVO is part of the paraffinic family of fuels which are stable, renewable, sustainable and high quality, making it perfectly suited for a wide range of applications including vehicles, generators and industrial power systems.

HVO meets EN 15940 standards and Fuel Quality Directive 2009/30/EC Annex II so can be used as a direct, drop-in alternative to mineral diesel without modifications to infrastructure or high initial investments. Simply place an order of Crown HVO fuel today and start reducing your CO2emissions right away.

The feedstocks used to manufacture Crown HVO are 100% waste, drawn from primary sources which have bypassed damage to the environment, natural ecosystem and the drive for global deforestation. All raw materials are checked and verified, and the fuel’s credentials audited by the Department for Transport (DFT) to ensure both sustainability and product integrity are certified.

HVO meets bio content requirements with no FAME included and, to that point, avoids the instability and operability issues seen by many low blend diesel fuels and high blend biofuels.

For more information on Crown HVO fuel, visit our HVO Fuel FAQ page where we delve into the advanced renewable diesel fuel further.

As the legislative requirement for “bio” content in fuel increases, the FAME content in fossil fuels will also increase. HVO fuel meets the requirements of current legislation – it’s 100% bio and FAME-free, so it doesn’t face the issues of stability faced by many existing biodiesel and gas oil products.

 

[BabaYaga]

Is anyone using HVO for a seagoing yacht and any problems and can you get it in sensible quantities? I have been recommended New Era fuels who advertise 200 litre barrels or 20 litre fuel boxes on their website. I am wanting to avoid diesel bug problems, Or in practice it is easier to just use a big volume supplier of marine diesel and add an additive: I use Gosport Marina and a dose of Marine16 and use a moderate amount in the season so have been OK so far.

I have been using HVO for the last two, three seasons in my 29 foot sailing boat, which has a 20 hp Beta 722 installed in 2006. Prior to this the engine generally ran on pure fossil diesel (FAME-free), which has been available here at most fuel docks for the last 15 years or so, since the problem with FAME and boat fuel was first revealed.
I have not noticed that the engine has any objections to running on HVO. I think the only difference is that the smell from the exhaust is a lot sweeter.
The fuel system has also been trouble free, BUT on the last trip of last season (an 8 hour engine run) I had the engine cutting out several times, after a couple of hours of running fine. This is a problem I am currently investigating. I have taken the fuel tank out of the boat and looked inside it for the first time in 44 years. There were a few blobs of black goo (diesel bug no doubt) swimming around and I believe one of these may have blocked the internal fuel pick up tube, causing the cut outs.
Whether the bug blobs has anything to do with the fuel shift is an open question. It may be the case but they may also have formed during many years. I very rarely run the engine for so long, which could explain why they have not given trouble before.

 

[Freebee]

I am wanting to avoid diesel bug problems,

HVO is a hydrocarbon and as such can support diesel bug, which eats the carbon from the hydrocarbon> good housekeeping is the way to avoid diesel bug take steps to eliminate water and you will not have the bug, get rid of any water bottoms in tanks, keep fuel filters drained of water. check all means of water and bug ingress , check tank filler gaskets are water tight, tank vents have some kind of screen. its all regular work but if you keep it up you will not have problems.

when you are filling up with fuel first put a sample into a clean white or stainless bucket and have a good look at it before you put any in the tank if its not clear and bright don't accept it. .

 

[boomerangben]

My big question re HVO is where is it coming from and what damage is being done to the environment. I get that any fossil fuel is dragging long term locked up carbon into the atmosphere and HVO is using carbon that is in a much shorter term cycle. But what damage is being done to the soils by growing oil crops? How sustainable is palm oil, soya, sunflower etc?

 

[BabaYaga]

My big question re HVO is where is it coming from and what damage is being done to the environment. I get that any fossil fuel is dragging long term locked up carbon into the atmosphere and HVO is using carbon that is in a much shorter term cycle. But what damage is being done to the soils by growing oil crops? How sustainable is palm oil, soya, sunflower etc?

The climate impact of HVO has been calculated to over 80 percent less than of using fossil diesel from a life cycle perspective (54 g/kWh compared to 339 g/kWh, figures from 2021). May depend a lot on what kind of feedstock that is used, of course. Cutting down rain forest to grow palm oil to make HVO would likely eliminate the benefit, or worse.
Most common feedstocks for the HVO sold here are apparently waste from butcheries and PFAD, a byproduct of palm oil production. There is, I believe, also a rather big potential in forestry waste, which will begin to be used within a few years, mainly with aviation fuel in mind.
Then there are other environmental concerns, besides climate.

 

[chubby]

HVO is a hydrocarbon and as such can support diesel bug, which eats the carbon from the hydrocarbon> good housekeeping is the way to avoid diesel bug take steps to eliminate water and you will not have the bug, get rid of any water bottoms in tanks, keep fuel filters drained of water. check all means of water and bug ingress , check tank filler gaskets are water tight, tank vents have some kind of screen. its all regular work but if you keep it up you will not have problems.

when you are filling up with fuel first put a sample into a clean white or stainless bucket and have a good look at it before you put any in the tank if its not clear and bright don't accept it. .

Do you in practice put a bit of diesel in a bucket before filling? I am not sure how popular you would be in a busy UK Marina with a queue for the fuel berth but I can understand in a small out of the way place.

 

[Freebee]

Do you in practice put a bit of diesel in a bucket before filling? I am not sure how popular you would be in a busy UK Marina with a queue for the fuel berth but I can understand in a small out of the way place.

yes of course, how long is that going to take 1 or 2 minutes max, you are trying to protect yourself not win a popularity contest, and if you decide to reject the fuel others waiting may be interested..

 

[boomerangben]

The climate impact of HVO has been calculated to over 80 percent less than of using fossil diesel from a life cycle perspective (54 g/kWh compared to 339 g/kWh, figures from 2021). May depend a lot on what kind of feedstock that is used, of course. Cutting down rain forest to grow palm oil to make HVO would likely eliminate the benefit, or worse.
Most common feedstocks for the HVO sold here are apparently waste from butcheries and PFAD, a byproduct of palm oil production. There is, I believe, also a rather big potential in forestry waste, which will begin to be used within a few years, mainly with aviation fuel in mind.
Then there are other environmental concerns, besides climate.

My concern is just how much land do you we need to power the world on HVO. The UK produces about 1.2 million tonnes of oil seed rape, the only large scale oil crop we can grow. oSR is about 40 - 50% oil so we might get about 1/2 a million tonnes of oil. Compare that with the 21 million tonnes of diesel and 12 million tonnes of jet fuel we consume in the uk each year! UK yields of OSR are about 3 - 4 tonnes per hectare or perhaps 1 - 1.5 tonnes of oil per hectare. Which means we need to farm up to 33 million hectares of OSR each year just to feed our engines. To put that into perspective, the area of the UK is just over 24 million hectares. All figures are from the UK government data on crop yields. I couldn’t find data on how much heating oil we use per year in the uk.

 

[Refueler]

My concern is just how much land do you we need to power the world on HVO. The UK produces about 1.2 million tonnes of oil seed rape, the only large scale oil crop we can grow. oSR is about 40 - 50% oil so we might get about 1/2 a million tonnes of oil. Compare that with the 21 million tonnes of diesel and 12 million tonnes of jet fuel we consume in the uk each year! UK yields of OSR are about 3 - 4 tonnes per hectare or perhaps 1 - 1.5 tonnes of oil per hectare. Which means we need to farm up to 33 million hectares of OSR each year just to feed our engines. To put that into perspective, the area of the UK is just over 24 million hectares. All figures are from the UK government data on crop yields. I couldn’t find data on how much heating oil we use per year in the uk.

From day one - I have always said and it became fact a while back ... the Bio reqt's of Govts could not be met if they increase the % past a point. The sheer amount of production needed - destroying staple crop lands ... it was not feasible.

Many countries that need to be more concerned with feeding their people turned to Cash Crop production - Oil Bearing crops.

Right hand gets a bit of money while left hand starves.

 

[SailingDog]

Is anyone using HVO for a seagoing yacht and any problems and can you get it in sensible quantities? I have been recommended New Era fuels who advertise 200 litre barrels or 20 litre fuel boxes on their website. I am wanting to avoid diesel bug problems, Or in practice it is easier to just use a big volume supplier of marine diesel and add an additive: I use Gosport Marina and a dose of Marine16 and use a moderate amount in the season so have been OK so far.

Fuel turnover at Gosport is high relative to other outlets in the area. Portsmouth pilots also fill up there. As long as your fuel system is bug free a fill up at Gosport along with additive should be fine.

 

[SvenH]

I've been using GTL in my Yanmar YM15 since 2014 without any problems.
Though chemically different than HVO100 I think it is practically the same.

It is pure stuff, without true plant based (unaltered) stuff mixed in. It is the plant based stuff that makes water in the diesel very bad, and reduces shelf life.

Also, the plant components react with copper if present in the fuel system, which also gives sludge.

To be clear, when I say plant based stuff I mean plant oil, not the HVO which is a fuel that is plant/animal oil changed through a chemical process.

For me, using GTL or HVO100 is the easiest and cheapest engine maintenance I can do. I get it from roadside fuel stations, do not need much, so 20 liters at a time is fine.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

My concern is just how much land do you we need to power the world on HVO. The UK produces about 1.2 million tonnes of oil seed rape, the only large scale oil crop we can grow. oSR is about 40 - 50% oil so we might get about 1/2 a million tonnes of oil. Compare that with the 21 million tonnes of diesel and 12 million tonnes of jet fuel we consume in the uk each year! UK yields of OSR are about 3 - 4 tonnes per hectare or perhaps 1 - 1.5 tonnes of oil per hectare. Which means we need to farm up to 33 million hectares of OSR each year just to feed our engines. To put that into perspective, the area of the UK is just over 24 million hectares. All figures are from the UK government data on crop yields. I couldn’t find data on how much heating oil we use per year in the uk.

It is part of a mix of energy supplies to reduce CO2. It is not supposed to be a full replacement for all fuels derived from subsurface sources of hydrocarbons.

Any brief look at UK energy supply can see the mix, so I don’t know why you would look at this in isolation, in the context of net CO2 reduction plans.

For me, as part of a package of stuff I can do to reduce my small proportion of CO2 as a result of sailing, HVO is possibly a meaningful contribution.

 

[boomerangben]

It is part of a mix of energy supplies to reduce CO2. It is not supposed to be a full replacement for all fuels derived from subsurface sources of hydrocarbons.

Any brief look at UK energy supply can see the mix, so I don’t know why you would look at this in isolation, in the context of net CO2 reduction plans.

For me, as part of a package of stuff I can do to reduce my small proportion of CO2 as a result of sailing, HVO is possibly a meaningful contribution.

HVO do not solve the climate crisis. Making use of waste oil, yes great. Pretending that HVO is going to save the planet is hypocrisy. I take your point about the mix of solutions. We cannot pretend that dispensing with fossil fuels is realistic in the foreseeable future. Rightly or wrongly.

So if we decided as you point out that HVO provide a small part of the fuel supply in the UK, how do we decide who gets it. Farmers who produce our food?, the trucks that deliver it? the jets moving business people around the world? the leisure market? The answer is those who provide the biggest margin for wholesalers.

Is going HVO in our leisure lives going to save the world or just make us feel better about ourselves? Surely we would be better off cutting our emissions in travelling to work, to the boat, going abroad on holidays, heating our homes, enjoying exotic and out of season foods?

Edit. Yes guilty of moving the discussion on to more philosophical subject of whether we should use HVOs to save the planet or appease our consciences

 

[Refueler]

I've been using GTL in my Yanmar YM15 since 2014 without any problems.
Though chemically different than HVO100 I think it is practically the same.

It is pure stuff, without true plant based (unaltered) stuff mixed in. It is the plant based stuff that makes water in the diesel very bad, and reduces shelf life.

Also, the plant components react with copper if present in the fuel system, which also gives sludge.

To be clear, when I say plant based stuff I mean plant oil, not the HVO which is a fuel that is plant/animal oil changed through a chemical process.

For me, using GTL or HVO100 is the easiest and cheapest engine maintenance I can do. I get it from roadside fuel stations, do not need much, so 20 liters at a time is fine.

GTL has absolutely no connection or similarity to HVO ...

GTL is taking LNG and processing to create a liquid fuel ... see attached.

I've been working with GTL for many years and the Lead People on this in Shell - I know personally.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

HVO do not solve the climate crisis. Making use of waste oil, yes great. Pretending that HVO is going to save the planet is hypocrisy. I take your point about the mix of solutions. We cannot pretend that dispensing with fossil fuels is realistic in the foreseeable future. Rightly or wrongly.

So if we decided as you point out that HVO provide a small part of the fuel supply in the UK, how do we decide who gets it. Farmers who produce our food?, the trucks that deliver it? the jets moving business people around the world? the leisure market? The answer is those who provide the biggest margin for wholesalers.

Is going HVO in our leisure lives going to save the world or just make us feel better about ourselves? Surely we would be better off cutting our emissions in travelling to work, to the boat, going abroad on holidays, heating our homes, enjoying exotic and out of season foods?

HVO does not claim to solve the climate crisis. Why do you not apply the same planet saving “pretending” logic to waste oil?
The market decides who gets it through supply and demand.
Folks who are serious about CO2 reduction do not suggest that fossil fuels will be 100% eliminated which is why carbon neutral plans exist.
As you point out there are many ways to reduce carbon footprints, so your logic should also be applied to HVO.

Personally, doing my wee bit, in itself is almost meaningless. My personal belief, based on the science, is that only large scale changes implemented by governments will solve the crisis. However, if I can contribute, I will. It is not a hard concept to apply.

 

[BabaYaga]

My concern is just how much land do you we need to power the world on HVO. The UK produces about 1.2 million tonnes of oil seed rape, the only large scale oil crop we can grow. oSR is about 40 - 50% oil so we might get about 1/2 a million tonnes of oil. Compare that with the 21 million tonnes of diesel and 12 million tonnes of jet fuel we consume in the uk each year! UK yields of OSR are about 3 - 4 tonnes per hectare or perhaps 1 - 1.5 tonnes of oil per hectare. Which means we need to farm up to 33 million hectares of OSR each year just to feed our engines. To put that into perspective, the area of the UK is just over 24 million hectares. All figures are from the UK government data on crop yields. I couldn’t find data on how much heating oil we use per year in the uk.

I do not think anyone has suggested that HVO can 'power the world'. My view is that anything that can be electrified without to much trouble, will be so during the next couple of decades. But some sectors will be more difficult to deal with, like aviation, shipping (and boating). I believe that bio fuels, like HVO, may have a roll to play there. I have no illusions that the cost of these fuels will be low (as today), so demand per capita will go down. But total demand may still be high enough to make production viable, when we can no longer go on using the fossil resources.
Also, most countries do not have their own fossil fuel resources, but must rely on importing. The same must be accepted for biobased fuels and in the future, many forms of energy production, I think. Some countries are densely populated, others less so. Some have a lot of sun or wind or high potential for hydro, such as Norway.
I agree that using farm land to produce fuel is problematic, in several ways, and I think the scope for doing so is rather limited.

 

[chubby]

yes of course, how long is that going to take 1 or 2 minutes max, you are trying to protect yourself not win a popularity contest, and if you decide to reject the fuel others waiting may be interested..

Good point!

 

[chubby]

Fuel turnover at Gosport is high relative to other outlets in the area. Portsmouth pilots also fill up there. As long as your fuel system is bug free a fill up at Gosport along with additive should be fine.

Given that I haven't had any problem with fuel bug and it was more a concern about possible problems in the future, that is the easiest option! My old leaky galvanised tanks were replaced two years ago and all the pipework renewed at the same time. I use the boat enough to have quite a high turnover of diesel so perhaps I am best carrying on as before.

 

[chubby]

I do not think anyone has suggested that HVO can 'power the world'. My view is that anything that can be electrified without to much trouble, will be so during the next couple of decades. But some sectors will be more difficult to deal with, like aviation, shipping (and boating). I believe that bio fuels, like HVO, may have a roll to play there. I have no illusions that the cost of these fuels will be low (as today), so demand per capita will go down. But total demand may still be high enough to make production viable, when we can no longer go on using the fossil resources.
Also, most countries do not have their own fossil fuel resources, but must rely on importing. The same must be accepted for biobased fuels and in the future, many forms of energy production, I think. Some countries are densely populated, others less so. Some have a lot of sun or wind or high potential for hydro, such as Norway.
I agree that using farm land to produce fuel is problematic, in several ways, and I think the scope for doing so is rather limited.

My motives for exploring the option of HVO were rather selfish in the I was concerned about the benefits of less risk of diesel bug and a cleaner exhaust and less diesel smell from a cleaner product with a longer storage life. Do these offset the increased cost and effort involved given the product is on the market. The volume used in a small niche market will make little impact on global issues maybe.