Hurley 22 or Sonata? Any other suggestions sub £5k?

MissFitz

MissFitz

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So, I've decided over Xmas that I simply can't go on any longer without a boat of my own. It will have to be something very cheap & small as a) I want to keep it in the Solent, b) I'm not awash with cash, & c) I don't want to feel guilty for leaving it in the marina while I go off racing on other people's boats.

What I'm looking for is something under £5k (preferably well under) & around 22-23ft that I can single-hand around the Solent to start with & take a bit further afield once I've got the hang of it. Obviously nothing in this bracket is going to be fast, but I do want something that's responsive to sail & reasonably nippy.

My initial thoughts (assisted by past posts on this forum & elsewhere) are a Hurley 22 or a Hunter Sonata. The Hurley looks great for longer distance cruising but I'm worried that it might not be manoeuvrable enough for berthing or short-tacking in tight spaces, given the length of its keel.

By contrast, the Sonata looks extremely nippy but there have been suggestions in the past that it's not really up to anything offshore & won't look after you in a blow. Also, I get the impression that it may need a bit of weight on the rail/on board (which I can't provide) to get the best out of it.

Any thoughts on any of this would be very much appreciated, as indeed would alternative suggestions.

(On the latter, I should perhaps mention that I have looked at the Anderson 22 & it looks great - but a) there don't seem to be that many available & b) they are significantly pricier than Hurleys or Sonatas.)
 
Go for it!

Both great little boats - but very different in character. The Hurley very much old school - compact, heavy, not fast but will stand an ocean crossing if that takes your fancy (though you may not enjoy the ocean as much as the boat does).
The Sonata is more of a modern generation, but from a brilliant designer. Much faster and IMHO more fun for somebody who likes occasional racing, and good fleet racing should you choose. Would need good reefing arrangements to sail short handed in a blow, but that is easily done. A young couple cruised a Sonata round the top of Scotland last year, Cape Wrath Orkneys and all - so plenty capable of doing longer passages if you want to (and with the speed to get cross Channel ahead of the storm, rather than ride through one)

Personally I would think a Sonata is a no regrets choice, as great sailing and racing boat, and easily shifted on if doesn't get the use.
 
A Pandora is another boat of a similar size and good performance, if a bit small inside. Whatever the keel on the Hurley, a boat of this size is not going to be difficult to manoeuvre in a marina. Sailors in the Baltic think nothing of manhandling small boats into boxes when there is no motor or conditions make things difficult.
 
There is a huge choice of boats in that size/price range - and you picked arguably polar opposites! Suggest you look a bit wider - there have been many articles in PBO recently reviewing the range of boats of this type and it may be worth getting copies for the copy department. The key to buying old small boats is getting one in good condition with good sails, gear and engine as replacing these things can cost more than you pay for the boat.

You will have to do a lot of searching in the small ads and places like club notice boards as boats will be for sale privately.
 
I can think of loads of boats that fit the length and budget requirements but are more moderate at both cruising or performance than the two you mention. Which end of the performance compromise do you prefer, cruising or racing?
 
What everyone else has said, really!
I've owned a Sonata, and had free use of a Hurley 22 for a few years, and they are as different as chalk and cheese: the Sonata is basically a big dinghy with a lid, and the Hurley is a proper little cruiser. So the Sonata would be more fun for a morning round the cans, but if you fancy a week across the channel, then there is no question that the H22 is the better boat for it. Neither of them are hard to handle (the H22's keel and weight make it more predictable and mean that the prop is less likely to come out of the water when an enthusiastic crew steps onto the side deck like happened to me with the Snotty), and either of them will be fine for a weekend bimbling around the Solent or wherever.
 
Try the Galion, it's a 22'er with standing headroom. The ones with an inboard do rather reduce the space "indoors" but if you can find one, they're probably a better bet for offshore.
 
Try a GK24 - very nippy indeed and pretty much bulletproof - we've sailed ours down across the Western Approaches and down to Les Sables D'Olonne although recently we've stuck to the South Coast. Very low headroom (comfortable for sitting only) but sleeps 4 and sails like a dream.

And yes I do have one that I really must sell but after finally putting a new engine into it last year I will probably leave putting it on the market again until after I've had at least a sail or two more.
 
Have a look at the site in my signature below, especially the ' Buyer's Guide ' - feel free to PM me with any queries, but suffice to say my example is not and never will be for sale - I've had other larger boats and fast dinghies but never come across any design in this size range to touch the Anderson 22 as an all round and especially seaworthy boat, unlike some mentioned she keeps going, fast into heavy weather - but still has a good interior.

I'd think we could find one to suit your budget, I know 2 not officially for sale yet.
 
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bitbaltic said:
Never sailed one but I've always fancied the Achilles 24 at this sort of size/price point.
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I owned one for ten years. The fin keel version will do all you want. Sitting headroom only, though. Great boats. We had a standard shaft Mariner 4 in a well as motor propulsion. It worked fine in flat water and the manoeuvrability was good. Never tried motoring in strong winds, though. I once rowed us into Portsmouth harbour, with the tide. They're very light.
 
MissFitz said:
By contrast, the Sonata looks extremely nippy but there have been suggestions in the past that it's not really up to anything offshore & won't look after you in a blow. Also, I get the impression that it may need a bit of weight on the rail/on board (which I can't provide) to get the best out of it.
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I took my lift keel Sonata across the North Sea (Harwich to Scheveningen), and then up as far as Germany before running out of time - the crossings both ways in fresh/strong winds. Bouncy, but not unmanageable. The fixed keel sails better. Every extra person is noticeable in a decent breeze, though I happily sailed single handed or 2 up. On the Medway there are 2 up crews which race effectively against larger crews, so not convinced it makes that much difference to overall speed.

There was also one which took part in the Jester Challenge a few years ago.

If going back to a similar boat I would look at the Duette, or Horizon 23. Perhaps not quite as fast, but easier to handle sails, and outboard in a well. Bilge keels attractive for taking the ground.
 
What do you want to do with it?
I have done some miles on Sonatas, they are quite capable for coastal use, I would be happy to go cross channel. They also offer some class racing.
In my youth, we gave the RYA ones a hard time and there were few breakages.
If you want good racing, how about a dayboat? The big question is what evening racing can you most easily get to? Squib, Victory, X Boat, SB20 etc?
If you want a small offshore boat that is not reliant on fat on the rail, a folkboat would be proper.
£5k budget is an issue, if you want some shiny new sails even for a small boat, that is half the cash gone, and annual costs are going to be in 4 figures for most fin keelers.
 
Several others (and I!) have Centaurs for sale within your budget. They are the epitomy of 'starter yachts' as they are big enough to comfortably cross the Channel yet small enough to handle easily when single handed and also permit passage up the various drying creeks and swatchways which makes sailing in the UK so appealing. See Dylan Winter's videoed excursions hereabouts for details.

[Apologies for romanticising and unashamed product placement! :0) ]
 
Many thanks for all the feedback so far, hugely helpful as always. A couple of thoughts on comments/questions:

lw395 said:
What do you want to do with it? ... £5k budget is an issue, if you want some shiny new sails even for a small boat, that is half the cash gone, and annual costs are going to be in 4 figures for most fin keelers.
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Much as it will surprise anyone who knows me, I'm not actually looking for something to race. This is because (for precisely the reasons given) I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be able to afford to run even a small race boat any time soon. So I'll be racing on other people's boats next year (J92 inshore & JPK 10.10 offshore) - but I want something of my own that I can learn to single-hand on in the Solent on non-racing days/weekends, ideally with the capability to get down to Weymouth to see my mum or back home to Brighton if I fancy a bit of a challenge. I might have a go at a race or two at some point if I can find anyone to come along, but only for fun.

So far, I'm liking the sound of the Sonata (boom boom!) more & more - cheap, frisky &, it seems, with at least some coastal/offshore capability.

With regard to other suggestions - the Achilles 24 & GK24 both look very good & I will investigate further. However, I'd like to try to keep the LOA down as every extra foot adds a fair amount to berthing costs in the Solent.

The Anderson 22 is still definitely a live contender. Thanks to Seajet for the offer of more info, PM sent.

Centaurs - we did try one as a starter boat a while back & sadly it wasn't a success. Not comfortable enough for my non-sailing HWMBO, not exciting enough for me. Not knocking them though, lovely boats.
 
If you like the Sonata you may also like the Intro 22 - not as many about but very similar in a lot of ways - even the same designer - the Intro could be considered as a multi chine Sonata - but with a heavier build. PBO described them as having a barn like cabin when they were introduced so the accommodation is large - but usually basic. I had one that I raced successfully for many years - and single handed in up to some very extreme winds/seas. Worth having a look if you can find one as they are usually a lot cheaper than the Sonata. Some were built in plywood and I have no experience of them - mine and the only others that I have seen were GRP.
 
A couple of off the wall ideas. re race boat, have you thourght about XOD's? They cost not much more than your budget and you can campaign one for less than £3k a year all in. The fleet is crying out for skilled younger sailors like you.

Another option would be a older wooden boat. Sure they take a bit of looking after, but it opens up both crusing and the classic racing weekends / weeks. These are growing in number, attendance and competitiveness. It's totally different to your large boat serious racing, but fin nonetheless.

Here's a local one, less than £500. No idea if its a keeper or not but might be worth a quick once over:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tradition...373040?hash=item51f184f330:g:znAAAOSwo4pYZPhW
 
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I had an Anderson 22 for a year while I was refitting my Centaur and I enjoyed it. Apart from that all I will say is stay away from boats with old inboard engines, they can end up costing you more than you paid for the boat! How do I know? :)
 
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