Hurley 22 or Cinder 22

[jwood]

I have narrowed my search for a 22 - foot cruiser down to these two models. I would appreciate any opinions on the relative merits and demerits of both, and if anyone has experience of both, then a comparison would be useful.

Are they 'much of a muchness', both being traditional, sturdy long keelers designed in the 60's? I haven't sailed either, only viewed out of the water.

Also, one has a Petter 6hp inboard diesel, the other a Volvo MD1 10hp. Apart from the apparent power difference, is there a clear favourite here?

Cheers.


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[sailorman]

my son has a Cinder, its a very nice, safe , strong ( like an outhouse) family cruiser.
both r pretty boats
prefer the volvo although it will now be quite old, petters worked better as moorings than engines imho

<hr width=100% size=1>Mines a Crocodile sandwich & make it Snappy

 

[gorb]

Don't know the Cinder 22 but my first boat (about 7 years ago) was a Hurley 22, with the Petter Mini 6 diesel. Noticed rude comments about the Petter in another posting. Do NOT BELIEVE IT! The Petter Mini 6 is a great wee engine and never gave me a moment of concern. It pushes the Hurley along at about 4 to 4.5 knts, always starts and burns not much more than a litre per hour. Also you will find that Lister Petter still support this engine. My Lister Petter depot in Glasgow was extremely helpful on any occasion I needed help.

I can't guide you on relative merits of the two boats, but I never ever regretted my purchase of my Hurley 22 and she kept me safe in some quite extreme conditions.

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[sailorman]

the Petters have a habit of not starting in cold weather & poke the con-rod through the crankcase ( regularly) these engines ( air cooled version ) were fitted to static plant in years past & were not very reliable.

<hr width=100% size=1>Mines a Crocodile sandwich & make it Snappy

 

[gorb]

Not my experience! My Petter had a heater coil and 25 seconds on that then started first time - even in cold Scotland. And the marinised versions are direct sea-water cooled so not fair to compare with the air-cooled version.

Petters for ever!

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[Jeremy_W]

Welcome to the forum.

A lot of people move on from their first yacht pretty quickly, so ease of re-sale is worth considering. In 20+ years' sailing I've never heard of the Cinder 22, but the Hurley 22 is very well known and will probably prove a whole lot easier to resell.

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[sailorman]

Cinder designed by John Westall designer of the 505 beat that

<hr width=100% size=1>Mines a Crocodile sandwich & make it Snappy

 

[jwood]

Many thanks for those contributions - i suspect asking opinions about 'which is better', be it engines or boats, will inevitably muddy the waters even further but I am pleased to read positive comments on both the boats. My gut feeling is that they are both very solid, proper sea boats , but the Hurley commands a higher price due to being much better known - ( related to the point about ease of resale).

Jeremy, the Cinder was moulded by Tylers, I gather, and is apparently not hugely different to the Tyler 22 that came later. She does indeed have attractive lines, with greater headroom than a Hurley 22 but similar underwater profile. Both built to last, I hope!

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[kds]

I recall that the cinder won a "one of a kind" rally many years ago as the best all-round boat of her size at the time. (Was it a YM competition ? - they might have something in their archives ?)
Ken

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.canongrange.co.uk>Bed and Breakfast, cathedral Green Wells, Somerset Canon Grange</A>

 

[supermalc]

Despite my age (57) I've not been around boats much, but after getting an 18ft Norman river cruiser 2 years ago, and now a 20 Mahogany clinker I've learnt a little.

A friend has a 22 Hurley, which he has recently moved to moor locally, and I was very impressed, by it's solid construction, and use of space etc. Very reminicient of the Normans, but with a little more class.

You may have to pay a little more, if only for the name, but should be able to reclaim on the resale.

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm.

 

[machurley22]

Presume you have seen the recent "What Boat?" thread but if not click <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&Number=628577&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=>here.</A> My first post contains some Hurley links which you may also be aware of but I can never resist an opporchancity to spread the word!

Dave

<hr width=100% size=1>The question 'Why not?' is a very difficult question to answer, and a very foolish question to ask.

 

[Cameron]

Sorry to chip in on this thread but further to the What Boat thread I couldn't resist. The consensus seems to be that the Hurley is a great way to go and I think that I am probably convinced.

As an aside there is a boat called a Hunter 701 for sale. Is this and the Achilles 24 a similar boat to the Hurley or is it somewhat more 'racey'?

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[Jeremy_W]

Both the Achilles and the 701 are significantly more racy than the Hurley 22. Both pretty hard to beat on handicap.

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[Colvic Watson]

Achilles 24 has VERY little accomodation for it's size

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Are we nearly there yet?

 

[jerryat]

Hi jwood,

Definitely go for the Hurley 22. I had one (from new) for about 5 years and had some of the best fun I ever had with boats. Genuine sea boat in which we made many, many trips to Brittany etc and always felt perfectly safe, even in lumpy weather with the family aboard. The 50 odd percent ballast ratio gives an amazingly stable ride, essential for me with a young family being introduced to sailing.

They do hold their prices remarkably well, so if you choose carefully and get one that's been well looked after, you should at least get your money back when you sell.

Cheers Jerry



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[jwood]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your thoughts on the Hurley 22. I'm not surprised so many people speak well of them, i am aware of their cracking reputation. I think there were less than 100 Cinder 22's built so no surprises the feedback has been limited on that one.

How did you find the limited accomodation below? I have been on board one and remember being a little taken aback at the tightness of space and poor headroom (rather like my first time on an Achilles 24!) I know it's only 22 foot - perhaps the way to go is to enjoy it's sailing ability and put up with the cramped feel?

Cheers, John

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[jerryat]

Hi John,

There's no getting away from the fact that the H22 is a 22 foot yacht of early design, so whilst you get the attributes others and I have referred to, the downside is space. We had light coloured cushions and white linings to mitigate this, and didn't find space a problem. Mind you, we only cruised for a maximum of 14-18 days (summer hols) at a time, and visiting the CI's, Normandy, Brittany, Scillies etc and exploring them, far outweighed the deficits.

What we wanted, was an affordable boat that we (and our two small boys) felt safe in, and the 22 was what we could afford at the time. Yes, her replacement, a Hustler 30, seemed huge by comparison, and SHE was designed in the late 60's and was tiny compared to more modern 30 footers!! It's just what you get used to. If you've sailed 'big' boats, a 22 is gonna seem really tiny, but if your budget is running around this size/age of boat, you probably won't do better.

Indidentally, I sold my 22 for a much better price than I paid for her and, whilst that may not pertain today, I still believe you'd get your pruchase price back on selling, given sensible maintenance.

Anyway, whichever boat you choose, I hope you have a terrific time sailing her.

Kind regards

Jerry

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[gorb]

After putting in my tuppence worth on the merits of the Petter Mini 6 diesel, I have to support the other contributors on the merits of the Hurley 22 as an ideal safe cruising boat. She is really solid and that high ballast ratio makes for steady going in even quite extreme conditions.

Yes, she is tight for space below - a factor of her age. One additional point - I found that for resonable comfort in bigger seas, a spray hood is essential. If the boat you buy does not have one, budget to get one made. On my Hurley, I found that I could not put up the spray hood under full sail (boom hit the top of it). But with one or more reefs in (ie when you are most likely to NEED the spray hood) I found that I could "reef the boom"; that is, I could move the gooseneck up the mast 6 inches or so and thus accommodate the spray hood in combination with the reduced sail. This trick made comfortable a very rough and wet sail up from Campbeltown to Tarbert after being stormbound for three days.

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[davey]

Petter Mini 6 vs Volvo MD1

I have narrowed my search for a 22 - foot cruiser down to these two models. I would appreciate any opinions on the relative merits and demerits of both, and if anyone has experience of both, then a comparison would be useful.

Are they 'much of a muchness', both being traditional, sturdy long keelers designed in the 60's? I haven't sailed either, only viewed out of the water.

Also, one has a Petter 6hp inboard diesel, the other a Volvo MD1 10hp. Apart from the apparent power difference, is there a clear favourite here?

Cheers.


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Re the snide remarks about the Petter being only fit for a mooring NOOOOOOO! its far to light for that as it only weighs about 70 kilos. The MD1 is far far heavier and with its huge flywheel it can be hand started fairly easily (unlike the Yanmar 1GM). BOTH engines will blow head gaskets if they are overheated so it is a good idea to fit an engine overheat alarm and a proper Vetus basket type strainer. Once one gets to the Caribbean the Petter will fire first time every time as soon as the piston goes over compression. In freezing Blighty the Petter like all diesels can become difficult for tyros to start but it has TWO gadgets to cope with the cold (1) is a glow plug in the inlet manifold. (2) is a little priming plunger for adding a teaspoonful of lubricating oil in order to increase the compression ratio. The injector pressure on the Petter is critical and it needs to be 2200 psi or higher. 1800 psi will cause knocking, bad running and a bad diesel smell as the fuel droplets will be too large to burn in the time that is available. Note that mineral oil needs to be used in the Petter not synthetic or semi-synthetic. The problem is the engines rubber parts which can be attacked by chemicals in the synthetic oils. As to stories of conrods coming through the crankases, was there any lubricant in the failed engines? On building sites they only check the oil AFTER the conrod breaks!

If you can afford it there is the Yanmar 1GM10 (physically taller than the Petter) There is also the Farrymann Yellow River Star which is ideal if space is very tight.

Good luck.

PS The Petter has an aluminium cylinder head which can corrode badly if the zinc anode is neglected. The Petter agents charge £s£s£s but all one needs is some half inch diameter zinc rod. To do a job the same as the OEM the rod needs to be threaded 7/16" (BSF I seem to remember but don't bank on it)

 

[LittleSister]

I have narrowed my search for a 22 - foot cruiser down to these two models. I would appreciate any opinions on the relative merits and demerits of both, and if anyone has experience of both, then a comparison would be useful.

Are they 'much of a muchness', both being traditional, sturdy long keelers designed in the 60's? I haven't sailed either, only viewed out of the water.

Unlike the Cinder, the Hurley does not have a traditional long keel (i.e. continuing towards the stern of the boat and with the rudder attached to the back of it), it has a long fin (i.e. it is a fin keel, but longer fore and aft than most fins) with a separate rudder (originally a spade, later models skeg hung). (There was also a bilge keel version of the Hurley 22.) This means that with an inboard engine a Hurley 22 will be much easier to manouevre in tight spaces like marinas than a Cinder. (Unfortunately, outboard powered versions of the Hurley have the prop behind the rudder, which also makes it hard to manouevre under power. )

I've not sailed a Cinder, but I'm sure it would be fine to sail, and a lot of fun (which is the point, is it not?). I can say from experience that the Hurley 22 is a great boat - sails well, and is very reassuring in rough conditions. Not a great deal of room inside, but quite adequate for two for a couple of weeks. The original Hurley built versions (two windows a side) were reckoned to be better built than later versions by other builders, but my later one (South Coast Marine?) was fine.