ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
How easy would it be to fit an inboard engine in a Hurley 22?
Hurley 22 new engine
- Thread starter ghostlymoron
- Start date
NB Willawaw
Well-Known Member
I would have thought the key points will be physical size of the engine and mountings ?
xeitosaphil
Well-Known Member
Depends if you have an inboard engine already? If you do have one and only upgrading ,not too bad.
If your starting from scratch ,you are looking at an awfull lot of money poss £6000 +
if you have to pay some body to do it for you?
This is something I thought of doing when I had my H22 and speaking to one of the guys in our Association who was just replacing one, with a Yanmar 1GM, I was put off by the costs? Its possible to start from scratch, but you will need deep pockets?
Are you a member of our Association? as there is a lot of people with lots of knowledge with regards to many aspects of owning a Hurley!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
However you do it, more than the boat is worth. When they were new some had inboards fitted such as the Vire, but most pre-date the really small diesel such as the Yanmar 1GM. This, or the Beta/Nanni 10 will physically fit the space, but as already suggested the cost is upwards of £5500 for the materials alone. About one third of that is ancilliaries - fuel system, exhaust, stern tube, so even getting a good used engine will still mean around £1500-2000, plus glassing in a stern tube and engine beds is not a trivial exercise.
James W
Well-Known Member
That pretty much sums it up i'm afraid. I had to ditch all ideas of an inboard after my original one gave up the ghost in a boat of around the same value (and era) as yours. The costs were just too much to justify in a 2-3K boat.
Be thankful that the H22 has a outboard well, although I know it can be a pain to manoeuvre with the drive behind the rudder.
Save yourself a lot of time and aggravation and just enjoy her for what she is......a bl**dy good sea boat!
Pleiades
Well-Known Member
Inboard Hurley
Ravensail fitted the Yanmar 1GM to their Hurley 22s and it was a brilliant engine for the boat -so far superior to the outboard in a well jobs that it transformed cruising ability in terms of range and endurance in bad weather. Friends with the outboard model reported problems with their engines suffocating - some had to run the engine with the well lid open just to let it breath - which is no use at all in rough seas. Proper alternator also had enough output to run full electrics. So if you fancy a new inboard and don't mind the cost I think it will transform the boat. My only caveat other than cost is that mine was the long fin which made installation straightforward , the shaft came out of the flat (vertical) face of the keel - I think doing it on a bilge keeler would be much trickier.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
Ravensail fitted the Yanmar 1GM to their Hurley 22s and it was a brilliant engine for the boat -so far superior to the outboard in a well jobs that it transformed cruising ability in terms of range and endurance in bad weather. Friends with the outboard model reported problems with their engines suffocating - some had to run the engine with the well lid open just to let it breath - which is no use at all in rough seas. Proper alternator also had enough output to run full electrics. So if you fancy a new inboard and don't mind the cost I think it will transform the boat. My only caveat other than cost is that mine was the long fin which made installation straightforward , the shaft came out of the flat (vertical) face of the keel - I think doing it on a bilge keeler would be much trickier.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
jerrytug
N/A
Agree with above,if you can afford to retrofit an inboard,you could just go out and buy another yacht already fitted with a diesel! Jerry. (Hurley 24/70)
srp
Well-Known Member
It's not difficult - it can't be as I did it (in a bilge keel Corribee). You can cut the costs significantly by buying a lot of the bits at boat jumbles - fuel tank, exhaust hose and water lock etc. I used a section of carbon fibre windsurfer mast for the stern tube, and found a length of 3/4"stainless in the local scrap yard for the shaft. It helps if you have access to, or know someone with a lathe to turn the taper for the prop and make your own stern tube bearing. I bought a new prop and shaft seal.
It costs, but you'll end up with an installation that you know inside out, which is not the case if you buy someone else's unloved boat. A 1gm10 in a Corribee here. The small Beta or Nanni is not much bigger than a 1 gm10 and is a smoother running engine. Make sure you have access to things like the water pump, engine anode and oil filter in your particular engine bay, also the exhaust outlet position LH or RH could be important - this might dictate which engine you buy.
Nick Vass
Active Member
A Farryman 7.5-hp is a good engine to fit. They are compact and very reliable as they are fitted to most small diesel genorators found on boats.
The Yanmar 1GM and YSE8 were often fitted to Hurley yachts.
The Yanmar 1GM and YSE8 were often fitted to Hurley yachts.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that Nick - you're the man who knows. I think it's a bit of a non-starter finance wise. I'd like for a H22 bilge keeler with an inboard and had seen a cheap one without engine (or mountings) hence the question. I think I'd do better paying more for one with inboard already fitted.
Nick Vass
Active Member
Yes I agree. It would be better value and a lot easier to buy a Hurley 22 with a decent inboard engine rather than to source and fit one yourself.
The engine new would cost around £3k plus the cost of an engine panel, electrics, extra battery, engine mounts, bearers, propeller shaft, stern tube, stern gland, 'P'-bracket, propeller, sacraficial anodes etc. Even if you fit it yourself you are still looking at least £4,000.00 in all.
The problem is that you can buy a nice Hurley 22 for that. Ones with inboards are rarer so perhaps budget £6,000.00 plus for a decent one with a decent inboard such as a Yanmar 1GM10.
This makes fitting a new diesel to a Hurley 22 un-economical.
Another option would be to buy a Hurley 22 with a worn out inboard. Perhaps one with a Stuart Turner, Vire or Dolphin petrol or a worn out Petter etc. Then fit a re-conditioned Yanmar 1GM10
Fin keel 22s are easier to fit inboards to and they don't need 'P'-brackets.
Thinking outside of the box. Electric drive. Electric motors can be cheap if you buy the correct type and know where to get them. Marine electric motors such as Mastervolt or Vetus can be expensive but there are cheaper ways if you are or know a boffin (I'm not but I know several).
The motors are the cheap bit but batteries can be very expensive and you will need a power source to replace the power that you have used.
Electric power is ideal if you have a pontoon mooring with power to recharge the batteries and only use the motor to get in and out of the river/harbour.
Regards
Nick Vass
Nick Vass
Active Member
Forgot to mention a fuel tank
Seajet
...
Robin,
I always have a great respect for your posts and knowledge, but may I suggest this is not your best topic !
I knew a couple of good boatbuilders ( - average sailors it must be said ) who had a Ravenglass H22.
She had a Dolphin inboard, the worst of both worlds of course, the installation hassle of an inboard with the petrol fuel of an outboard, and to cap it all, fixed forward gear, start and they were off !
Clutches and reverse gears were available for Dolphins and I know someone who collects them, but to be frank it seems like lawnmower rather than seagoing kit to me.
Fitting any inboard, even a YGM-1 - admittedly the best option I know of - is a horrible wight and drag penalty on a boat which cannot really afford it.
A twin keel Hurley 22 will funnel any weed / flotsam / pot buoys straight to the prop'.
The propshaft is always a potential source of worrying / disastrous leaks.
It's weight in the wrong place.
You can't take it home to service it.
Corrosion will knobble it.
With an outboard well, one simply lifts and stows the engine then fits the well plug ( there IS one, isn't there ?! ) ; zero prop drag, zero chance of a lobster pot line around it.
Also if motoring and one collects a pot line around the prop', its' simple to raise the engine and use the old breadknife kept handy to remove the line in the safety of the cockpit - compared to diving underneath, how about in the dark ? -.
I find the 2-stroke Mariner 5hp is / was the best powerplant available for this size boat, any larger and the fuel consumption is awful ( I get 2.5 hours per gallon at 4.7-5knots in calms on my Anderson 22 ) and one can lift the engine to stow it and put the fairing blank in when sailing, which is the main point of the exercise.
There are a few inboard engine equipped Anderson 22's, which are basically similar to a Hurley 22 but a bit more slippery in air and water, maybe a touch less displacement.
The inboard equipped A22's have various engines from BMW to Dolphin with Yanmar inbetween, but the sad fact as I and most owners see it is one gets vastly better rewards from the slight effort ( in the A22 design case ) of putting a suitably light outboard in and out.
If elderly or otherwise bothered, I suppose one can do a lot worse than a Yanmar, good engines; but I know someone who picked up a peach of a late, well equipped re-engined Centaur for a steal - depends what you want from a boat !
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ridgy
Well-Known Member
You'd have to be pretty mad to spend 6k on a Hurley 22.
If you are going to have the hassle of an inboard you might as well have the boat to go with it. You can get a Centaur/Halcyon 27/many other more comfortable boats for 6k these days and you might even find someone willing to go sailing with you. Not much fun sat in that tiny cabin when its raining.
(Had a Hurley 22 for 3 years)
If you are going to have the hassle of an inboard you might as well have the boat to go with it. You can get a Centaur/Halcyon 27/many other more comfortable boats for 6k these days and you might even find someone willing to go sailing with you. Not much fun sat in that tiny cabin when its raining.
(Had a Hurley 22 for 3 years)
Nick Vass
Active Member
Small diesels fit relatively easily in Hurley 22 yachts. Ravensail fitted the Yanmar 1GM. The weight was amidships roughly and the prop did not come out of the water when going over a wave.
The weight of a small diesel is not a lot more than an outboard.
All bilge keel yachts have the motor in the centre so can't see how an inboard would make any difference regarding getting weed around it?
Owners of Hunters and Moodys with inboards don't see it as a problem?
The thing is that choice of a yacht is very personal and people should not knock anothers choice.
Seajet
...
Nick, EH ?!
Ravensail fitted the Dolphin to my erstwhile chums' boat, known as the H22R I seem to remember.
I'd love to see a diagram as to how the weight of the engine was amidships please ?
Yes all twin keel - not bilge keel with a centre keel and bilge plates - boats will tend to funnel pot buoys or flotsam etc onto the central prop', the Hurley would be no better or worse in this respect but it's a lot more vulnerable with a fixed central prop than an outboard in a well only when required, a flush hull the rest of the time - which also greatly helps sailing speed and reduces passage times.
My boat has the engine in a well and I'd have to really try to get the prop out of the water, it's a very good solution compared to hanging the engine off the back end, but we're discussing the pro's and cons of inboards...
I don't have the figures to hand, but comparing weights if you really felt you had to drop an engine on me I'd much rather it was a Mariner 5 2-stroke than a Yanmar diesel.
I have a nasty feeling someone is carving that on my tombstone somewhere, I'm sensing something coming through the ether, a name beginning with 'T' ? !
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't really want to get into (another?) argument with you - but you are talking a load of tosh. A Yanmar 1GM will significantly improve the overall capability of a Hurley 22 as a pocket cruiser. The outboard engine well is one of those that suffers from fumes and being behind the rudder makes any reversing a lottery.
The main reason you see so few fitted with inboards is purely cost. Even when the boats were new the cost of an inboard was disproportionate to the overall cost of the boat - and motors available in the early days were poor. The 1GM was specifically designed for 22-25' or so boats as its light weight, simplicity and small size made it feasible to fit it.
As everybody else on this thread has said - good choice for the boat, but not an economic proposition to retrofit, but worth having if you can find one already fitted.
Please don't try and reply - you will only dig yourself into a bigger hole.
The main reason you see so few fitted with inboards is purely cost. Even when the boats were new the cost of an inboard was disproportionate to the overall cost of the boat - and motors available in the early days were poor. The 1GM was specifically designed for 22-25' or so boats as its light weight, simplicity and small size made it feasible to fit it.
As everybody else on this thread has said - good choice for the boat, but not an economic proposition to retrofit, but worth having if you can find one already fitted.
Please don't try and reply - you will only dig yourself into a bigger hole.
Seajet
...
I could hardly dig a deeper hole than your record on outboard wells, let's see who has 34+ years experience ?
You haven't answered the fixed installation drag and pot / flotsam collection snags compared to a well either, let alone the 'yanmar mounted amidships'; is this viewed in profile as I'd naively supposed, or head-on with options of displacing significantly to one side ?
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Speaking as a past owner of a Hurley 22 (long fin) with an outboard, I would have loved to have had an inboard.
- That would have given me engine weight low down in the centre of the boat rather than high up at the end.
- The prop would have been in front of the rudder (rather than behind) so I could have turned the boat at a standstill or low speed, rather than have no control under about a knot (interesting coming in/out of a berth!).
- I wouldn't have the exhaust coming out of the middle of the prop, so it would have been much more effective in reverse.
- I could have done my whole summer cruise on a tankful of diesel, instead of having to walk miles at every port to find a petrol station.
- I would have had an alternator that could keep a battery charged up to run my nav & cabin lights and autohelm.
- It would have been quieter and less smelly, because the outboard engine would usually choke on its own fumes (despite the vents) if the lid was left down on the outboard well.
As for Seajet's putative advantages -
One couldn't 'simply lift the outboard out of the well', at least not with the 8hp 2 stroke Yamaha twin I had. It was heavy, awkward, and had to be twisted at a difficult angle to waggle the prop and bottom end of the leg through the hole in the hull. I usually only did it once a year when laying up, hence a blanking plug was redundant. (Never got the prop wrapped.) As the engine couldn't be turned once in place, the usual advantages of being able to steer with the outboard were absent, too.
I would willingly buy another Hurley, but only if I was desperate would I buy another with an outboard.
I would certainly have an outboard on a smaller boat (I had them on a 16 1/2 foot centre-boarder (previously) and a 17' 3" Pirate (subsequently) with more success). But the Hurley is such a capable cruising boat the outboard becomes a real constraint and nuisance.
The additional weight of an inboard diesel probably makes less difference to a Hurley 22 that to an Anderson 22, as it displaces nearly 60% more (the Hurley's ballast alone is almost as much as the Anderson's total displacement).
- That would have given me engine weight low down in the centre of the boat rather than high up at the end.
- The prop would have been in front of the rudder (rather than behind) so I could have turned the boat at a standstill or low speed, rather than have no control under about a knot (interesting coming in/out of a berth!).
- I wouldn't have the exhaust coming out of the middle of the prop, so it would have been much more effective in reverse.
- I could have done my whole summer cruise on a tankful of diesel, instead of having to walk miles at every port to find a petrol station.
- I would have had an alternator that could keep a battery charged up to run my nav & cabin lights and autohelm.
- It would have been quieter and less smelly, because the outboard engine would usually choke on its own fumes (despite the vents) if the lid was left down on the outboard well.
As for Seajet's putative advantages -
One couldn't 'simply lift the outboard out of the well', at least not with the 8hp 2 stroke Yamaha twin I had. It was heavy, awkward, and had to be twisted at a difficult angle to waggle the prop and bottom end of the leg through the hole in the hull. I usually only did it once a year when laying up, hence a blanking plug was redundant. (Never got the prop wrapped.) As the engine couldn't be turned once in place, the usual advantages of being able to steer with the outboard were absent, too.
I would willingly buy another Hurley, but only if I was desperate would I buy another with an outboard.
I would certainly have an outboard on a smaller boat (I had them on a 16 1/2 foot centre-boarder (previously) and a 17' 3" Pirate (subsequently) with more success). But the Hurley is such a capable cruising boat the outboard becomes a real constraint and nuisance.
The additional weight of an inboard diesel probably makes less difference to a Hurley 22 that to an Anderson 22, as it displaces nearly 60% more (the Hurley's ballast alone is almost as much as the Anderson's total displacement).
Nick Vass
Active Member
Nick, EH ?!
Ravensail fitted the Dolphin to my erstwhile chums' boat, known as the H22R I seem to remember.
I'd love to see a diagram as to how the weight of the engine was amidships please ?
Yes all twin keel - not bilge keel with a centre keel and bilge plates - boats will tend to funnel pot buoys or flotsam etc onto the central prop', the Hurley would be no better or worse in this respect but it's a lot more vulnerable with a fixed central prop than an outboard in a well only when required, a flush hull the rest of the time - which also greatly helps sailing speed and reduces passage times.
My boat has the engine in a well and I'd have to really try to get the prop out of the water, it's a very good solution compared to hanging the engine off the back end, but we're discussing the pro's and cons of inboards...
I don't have the figures to hand, but comparing weights if you really felt you had to drop an engine on me I'd much rather it was a Mariner 5 2-stroke than a Yanmar diesel.
I have a nasty feeling someone is carving that on my tombstone somewhere, I'm sensing something coming through the ether, a name beginning with 'T' ? !
The biggest snag in your arguement is that you can't buy two-stroke outboards anymore! They are no longer available and so you could not fit a new one even if you wanted to.
The weight of an inboard is roughly amidships, nearer the centre of the yacht than an outboard in a lazerette well.
You can't raise a four-stroke outboard out of the water in most wells as they are a tight fit and so you can't get to the prop in the way that you suggest even if you wanted to.
For example, on the Hunter Ranger 23 with an outboard in the engine well locker that was offset on the portside, you can't get a four-stroke to fit the sliding brackets that were intended to raise the leg clear of the water when sailing.
I have loads of drawings, diagrams and photographs of Hurley 22s that you are very welcome to see.
You have forgotten about the rudder. Is that not on the centreline, between the keels?
Ravensail Marine offered the Hurley 22R as either a fin keel or a bilge keel. They did not call them twin keels. Either description is sound though.
Hunter tended to call boats twin keel such as the Hunter Horizon 27TC.
A yacht with centre keel and two side bilge plates for grounding is more often called a tripple-keel BTW.
I steer around lobster pots on account of having a rudder.
