Hunton ... Sad News

[Whitelighter]

Hmmmmmm, maybe, or would you try to sell the molds to recoup some of the losses?

It depends - to sell you have to find someone to buy.
Who has the the trivector of storage space, cash and the desire/skill to do something with hulls that even a respected and established proprietary brand went under trying to sell

 

[rafiki_]

It depends - to sell you have to find someone to buy.
Who has the the trivector of storage space, cash and the desire/skill to do something with hulls that even a respected and established proprietary brand went under trying to sell

Good question Jez, but there are plenty of people out there wanting into the business.

 

[mlines]

Sounds very strange, destroying the only asset the company has. Unless its a fit of spite.

 

[MapisM]

I know nothing at all about the conditions of those moulds allegedly destroyed, but just for the records, a hull mould ain't something that can last forever.
Depending on how many hull were produced and how they were treated/maintained, they could well have been just useless things taking up valuable space...
...and needless to say, this is regardless of residual book value (if any).

 

[petem]

I know nothing at all about the conditions of those moulds allegedly destroyed, but just for the records, a hull mould ain't something that can last forever.
Depending on how many hull were produced and how they were treated/maintained, they could well have been just useless things taking up valuable space...
...and needless to say, this is regardless of residual book value (if any).

Yeah but they'd be good for way more than the modest quantities that Hunton made, surely?

 

[Ian h]

I know nothing at all about the conditions of those moulds allegedly destroyed, but just for the records, a hull mould ain't something that can last forever.
Depending on how many hull were produced and how they were treated/maintained, they could well have been just useless things taking up valuable space...
...and needless to say, this is regardless of residual book value (if any).

If you looked closely at some of the last XRS 43's that were built it was clear to see that the moulds needed some attention. I heard somewhere that moulds are usually only good for around 50 boats. (But may have miss heard)

The 2 sources I would say were good for the information sadly to say. Nothing makes sense as I have seen an interview with Fiona Pool on the internet where she is still claiming that she can turn the brand around .......umm how many boats did they actually sell while she was in charge

 

[z1ppy]

If you looked closely at some of the last XRS 43's that were built it was clear to see that the moulds needed some attention. I heard somewhere that moulds are usually only good for around 50 boats. (But may have miss heard)

The 2 sources I would say were good for the information sadly to say. Nothing makes sense as I have seen an interview with Fiona Pool on the internet where she is still claiming that she can turn the brand around .......umm how many boats did they actually sell while she was in charge

I don't believe the management of new hunton could turn a car around, let alone the business...

Sad state of affairs and sadly the final nail in the hunton coffin.

 

[Ian h]

I don't believe the management of new hunton could turn a car around, let alone the business...

Sad state of affairs and sadly the final nail in the hunton coffin.

But does not stop Fiona dreaming

https://plus.ibinews.com/article/kO...vency_hunton_aims_for_us50m_in_sales_worldwi/

 

[Bouba]

Is it really the boat people want? It's a boat where accommodation is sacrificed for speed and yet it's nowhere near as fast as American muscle boats like cigarette. It may look beautiful it maybe superbly built but I don't see the market. Sorry

 

[Portofino]

If you looked closely at some of the last XRS 43's that were built it was clear to see that the moulds needed some attention.

@ Cannes circa 2015 -they exhibited a RS 43 in black ,only one boat .It was on a jetty between the two big French MoBo ( and yachts ) maker ,further along ,t-other side a magnificent Otam 65 ,or 60 ish also in black gel coat .
Nobody was on the Hunton ,evey body walked past ,I had a jetty side look ,it was side on and maybe it was the pm sun 6 pm ? Or the light ,but as you know black shows every detail
Point is this ,the hull had marked ripples in it vertical ,and the black caulk inbetween the teak was smudged -maybe the heat ?
It looked narrow and low compared to the local French boats ,and @ £500 K asking -- no wonder folks just walked by .

As for Fiona "dream" in the link above of $ 50 M sales ---no way
As Bouba says the American mkt is mature with its own muscle cum sports high speed stuff ,Fountain , Donzi a couple more examples
As for the "high net worth " buyers -- well again at any Cannes , suspect Genoa show too -- Otam , small yard customisable
Muscle 50 knots + boats all Arnesons -- super quality ,like carbon fibre Passerelle etc ,hard tops etc , and nice interiors luxury too.
Ferretti group , have luxury Riva ,s -sure a big reputation ,but nether the less a great tangible finish ,
@ 75 ,the Itama if you want more speed and at €1.5 M the slower Itama 62 , ( ok hands up i,am biased ).Also Pershing even the intro 50 X can be had with Arnesons -Good for 50 knots and packed with innovative features the "group " can bring .All of the above nice fit n finish .

Then of course there s the Ferretti marketing band wagon -which puts on pre show events like Monaco mini "blue " event last Sept before Cannes ,Elton John did a gig , Monaco Yacht club ,venue , test drive any boat ,- so they have allready got there hands on "high net worth " and let them get there sticky fingers on the throttles --
That's before the public show @ Cannes in a few days time ,

Just can,t see Hunton with a 55 or 60 something temping these so called "high net worth " buyers , without a huge marketing bandwagon like Ferretti and Sunseeker et al .

Day boaty wise then of course you have Wally -- a real statement of so called "high net worth " .

Hunton failed to innovate fast enough with the moving market ,the fast boat ( and fab seakeeping ) buyer also wants a comfortable boat to live with too ,this means adding some beam ,which adds weight and drag -but you counter that with FO engines and inovative drive trains .
I mean they hit the buffers in terms of never making a shaft drive mid mounted set up .

£1/2 M for an outdrive cramped narrow beamed ,dated hull design with obvious ripples --- It looked out of place @Cannes .

Times have moved on .

 

[Bigplumbs]

Their web site is still up and running

 

[JumbleDuck]

Hmmmmmm, maybe, or would you try to sell the molds to recoup some of the losses?

Owning the moulds isn't enough to be able to build boats - you need a license to do so from the designer as well. Without that, the moulds are useless lumps for landfill.

 

[petem]

Owning the moulds isn't enough to be able to build boats - you need a license to do so from the designer as well. Without that, the moulds are useless lumps for landfill.

Surely that would depend on the terms of the license?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Surely that would depend on the terms of the license?

Exactly.

It's very unlikely that a landowner could simply seize a set of moulds in lieu of storage charges and flog them to someone to use for boat building.

 

[petem]

Exactly.

It's very unlikely that a landowner could simply seize a set of moulds in lieu of storage charges and flog them to someone to use for boat building.

I assumed that when you commissioned a design and moulds they were yours to do whatever you like with them. Including assigning them to someone else.

 

[Promarine11]

I believe if the property rights are with a company rather than an individual the value and property rights permit to re sell and build may be a little easier to take on.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I assumed that when you commissioned a design and moulds they were yours to do whatever you like with them. Including assigning them to someone else.

I think it's normal for independent designers to charge per hull built as well as the initial design fee. The moulds probably don't come into it - they are just part of the production equipment of the company making the boats. They do regularly change hands, of course, but I'd be very surprised if the design IP went with them.

All this with knobs on in the suggested case of selling off the moulds to pay storage fees ... it might well be legal for the landowner to take the moulds, but that doesn't give them the design IP.

I've only once in my life bought a boat design, for a 6' plywood dinghy, and the contract for that allows me to built just one boat. If I want to build more, or if I give away or sell the plans (both allowed) the new owner has to pay a fee before building.

 

[longjohnsilver]

I think it's normal for independent designers to charge per hull built as well as the initial design fee. The moulds probably don't come into it - they are just part of the production equipment of the company making the boats. They do regularly change hands, of course, but I'd be very surprised if the design IP went with them.

All this with knobs on in the suggested case of selling off the moulds to pay storage fees ... it might well be legal for the landowner to take the moulds, but that doesn't give them the design IP.

I've only once in my life bought a boat design, for a 6' plywood dinghy, and the contract for that allows me to built just one boat. If I want to build more, or if I give away or sell the plans (both allowed) the new owner has to pay a fee before building.

Totally understand what you're saying. But if you gave me the design and I built a boat from that, who would know? The chances of being found out are pretty slim?! And even then, how would anyone prove it was an xyz design?

 

[Boat2016]

Totally understand what you're saying. But if you gave me the design and I built a boat from that, who would know? The chances of being found out are pretty slim?! And even then, how would anyone prove it was an xyz design?

The designer usually gets a royalty payment for each one from the mould, I'm sure the designers all know where the mould are and will watch out for new boats, wouldn't think it's an easy one to get away with

 

[DownWest]

As an occasional builder and son of a designer, I have no doubt that people reuse plans that are passed on without paying the royalty. But, on boats of the order of £.5m, it would be lunacy to try and sell on the open market without sorting the IP rights. Open door for legal case, unless you can prove substantial différences in the design. In which case, why buy the old moulds?