Hunter Medina vs Swift 18 et al

Dan - if you want to have a go on a micro jump on a flight to Glasgow and I will take you out on mine. Slightly quicker than a Swift, capacious but basic inside and lots of fun. 30 knots of wind(not measured by me, that's what a few folk told me it was), full sail and it still went to windward. I'll pick you up at the airport and even provide a bed for the night.
 
That really is a very kind offer Pete, thanks for it. Actually, despite my constant haunting of the forum at the moment, I'm not even free to visit my own boat, 20 minutes away. But I'll keep your kind offer in mind when things change. :encouragement:

wombat88 said:
...thought should be given to the simplicity and accessibility of the drop keel, its casing and the lifting equipment.
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And possibly, to the manageability of its mass. The Swift's keel is a dainty 170kgs; the Medina's is 220kg; the Jaguar 21's is 249kg and the keel of the Horizon 21 is reportedly a massive 490kg.

I'm sure they're all made possible by tackles but I reckon the Swift has to win on ease of use - just a socket in the keel-case with a handle to crank it up and down. Or, one could strap a right-angle cordless drill to the keel-case and have it electrically operated. :rolleyes:

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Winding the Swift 18's keel up will be all the exercise you need, never mind 10,000 steps per day. In reality I used to leave it down all the time.
PS I may not have made it clear but the Hunter Horizon 21 is Bilge Keel. I just mentioned it as I believed the hull to be the same as the Medina.
 
Thanks CoVianna, I had completely overlooked the fact that the Horizon isn't a centreboarder. :hopeless:

If the Swift's lifting system is hard work, the tackle-assembly which hoists the Medina's vertical drop-keel must be more arduous.

Starting to like that electric-assistance idea, slotting the drill into the Swift's socket. Not that I'm lazy, of course. :rolleyes:

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Hmm...maybe the standard cordless drill, in high gear, then. :)

Did your ownership of the Swift include spinnaker use? I'm wondering how comparable or much easier/harder it must be, in a ballasted boat with a tiny cockpit, as opposed to a tippy dinghy with easy access to everywhere behind the mast.
 
and Dancrane, you are welcome to look over a Jaguar 21 at Chichester, it is out of the water right now. It would take a hell of a sight more than a battery drill to lift the keel...but a little exercise is always good for you.
 
Dan,

you know which lift keeler I'd recommend ! :)

We sailed alongside a couple in a Jag' 21 we'd met; on a broad reach in F2-3 there was nothing to choose between the boats, exactly the same speed - no kites, but it's quite easy to sail either singlehanded with spinnaker - though I much prefer my tri-radial asymmetric, a trick I learned from International 14's, MUCH more user friendly.

I think the Jag 21 might be faster upwind in light airs, the Swift 18 probably even better but in heavy going the A22 would walk all over them.

NB ballast ratios, if looking at a Jag 21 check it has the Plan B additional internal ballast; there's a rowing gig club near our moorings, one day they came across a Jag 21 laying with its mast in the water, blown over by a squall; they hoiked the mast up and it sproinged back upright :o
 
What a helpful and generous crew you all are, thanks very much.

There's a lot to consider. I like the Medina very much - it's a proper little yacht, and critically, there's a tidy one available near me.

But I do like how compact the Swift is; it'd be an effortless step from dinghy-sailing to cruising a lightweight 18ft cabin centreboarder. And I like how easy they must be to sell on later...they've been around 35 years but I've never seen one in poor condition.

I guess I'm lucky to have five cold months ahead to think about it, before I'm likely to want to go sailing far in any of them. ;)
 
I had a gennaker which came with the boat but I think I only used it twice. I like my sailing to be relaxed! Even with the standard sail plan the Swift was good in light airs.
 
Thanks. I want a Swift. :)

Sam Llewellyn's "minimum-boat" approach, which persuasively reduces ownership stress and costs, whilst allowing Shoal Waters-style exploration with low draft and the sheer handiness of a boat small enough to dry out and roll from side to side for hull inspection or de-fouling, is very attractive...and clearly, that minimum weight quickly grows with length overall, to become something wholly unmanageable without organised assistance.

After sailing 24ft and 34ft yachts this year, I only wonder how quickly I'd get tired of an 18/20-footer's accommodation, and desperate for a bigger cabin in the same way I presently want any cabin. These fine small lifting-keelers are mostly hovering around the £3,500 mark, and one can find a less-excellent but much more comfortable Centaur at similar cost, despite pricier berthing and maintenance. On balance I don't think it diminishes the small boats' appeal.
 
Dan, I've single handed my bradwell 18 approx 1000 miles, all the way up the Irish Sea to top of Scotland and back, spending up to 2 weeks at a time in her at a time, and another 200 miles doublehanded, where we shared the accom for a week at each time. It's fine, as long as you can cook and make tea and have a comfy berth.

I now have a longbow as well, and the difference in accomodation is amazing. But so are the keeping and maintenance costs, and there is more to go wrong. It's a very different beast.

If you want to go coastal cruising and poking up creeks and exploring shallows etc, the little boats are ideal. When it gets too cramped, that's what pubs etc are for :)

So much so I have decided to fettle the trailer and bring the little bradwell back down to essex this winter, and use her to explore the essex, kent and suffolk coasts. Covering 20-30 miles a day is much more fun in a little boat, (the bigger ones feel like overkill for much of the short trips they get used for) and get into all sorts of places closed to larger cruisers.
 
The only issue with the Swift, which is impossible to resolve, is the keel box intrusion into the cabin. It did in the end annoy me so much I sold the Swift. That’s why many years later I bought a bilge keel Hunter Horizon 21. That has its own issues for me, principally draft. So that was sold and I now have a Com Pac 23. It solves most but not all of my issues with previous boats and maybe sold. Guess I’m just restless and looking for the perfect boat. And we all know the perfect boat doesn’t exist. But I do know, for me, the next boat will have a lift keel.
Still miss the Swift though.
 
I hope other readers are finding these contributions as helpful as I am. :encouragement:

The centreboard-case question may be more significant to people downsizing...coming from dinghies, it's no big deal to me.

Admittedly, a clear floor would be a positive aspect of graduating to keel yachts, but not nearly as significant a factor as the negative - the increased, fixed draft, and the limits which that draft puts on coastal exploration. I can live with the keel-housing.

Looking at two designs a while ago (one a strong upwind performer, the other a comfortable, less able sailing machine) I was reminded that even aboard the best boat, beating in rough water is no picnic, and yachtsmen tend to wait till contrary winds have changed...

...I knew that in theory, but dinghy day-sailing prevents extended stays, so getting home to windward has dominated my sailing priorities. In a yacht though, I mightn't benefit much from a boat that's at its strongest in conditions I'll try hard never to encounter...

...which seems to me to say smallest is best, assuming the sailing is rewarding up to a strong force 5. Not a lot of wind perhaps, but it's probably five times as many days per season as I'm able to launch at present. :)
 
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A bradwell 18 has a pivoting keel, no keel housing intruding into cockpit or cabin at all, and a draft with keel lifted of 40cm's.

If you touch ground going forward the keel just lifts backwards, like a special depth sounder :) unlike the daggerboard style lifting keels.

It's a great wee boat for cruising, but it's prob not going to come anywhere near to those you are looking at performance wise. It's really a wee boat to go exploring in. WIndward performance on mine is pants but then the sails are ancient and baggy!
 
In a Force 5 I’d have one reef in and probably two. The Swift is best sailed flat. And anyway it’s no real fun to sail on your beam ends for hours.
Watch out for weight in the rear. A heavy 5hp 4 stroke can seriously affect performance and is not easy to stow if you took it out of the well underway. Originally mine had a 4hp 2 stroke which was ideal as it was easy to lift out of the well and stow in a cockpit locker. And sit as far forward in the cockpit as possible. A tiller extension is a great boom.
 
CoVianna said:
In a Force 5 I’d have one reef in and probably two. The Swift is best sailed flat. And anyway it’s no real fun to sail on your beam ends for hours.
Watch out for weight in the rear. A heavy 5hp 4 stroke can seriously affect performance and is not easy to stow if you took it out of the well underway. Originally mine had a 4hp 2 stroke which was ideal as it was easy to lift out of the well and stow in a cockpit locker. And sit as far forward in the cockpit as possible. A tiller extension is a great boom.
Click to expand...

In other words sail it like a dinghy!

Only just realised I started this thread last year...
 
CoVianna said:
Watch out for weight in the rear. A heavy 5hp 4 stroke can seriously affect performance...
Click to expand...

This is top advice which I would never have predicted. I was already looking at the Swift owners' association, finding how powerful an outboard I could fit! Although I've heard it's a tight space, so a big outboard is probably wrong for every reason.

Having said that, I might have expected that the Swift's exaggerated beam would carry weight aft, quite well.

wombat88 said:
In other words sail it like a dinghy!
Click to expand...

The best kind of dinghy...one which (I'm hoping) luffs-up when you overcook things, self-rights without needing board-walking, and lets you sleep aboard rather than necessitating hauling out. :)
 
I suppose anything hefty like battery, tools, fuel/water cans, can be stowed ahead (or instead) of the porta-potti between the V-berths.

The stern-heavy tendency must reward rather than penalising the carrying of a decent-sized anchor and a few metres of chain.

I can't remember if I read it here or elsewhere...but does the Swift's cockpit floor flood, if there's more than a couple seated there?
 
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