Hunter Liberty/Minstrel - any feedback for me

[Seajet]

Dylan,

while surfing through E-Bay the other day I saw a Centaur - one of the unfortunates which has had wheel steering added - with a newish diesel, looked Ok in the pic, around £5,000.

Now the ovbious question is 'what's wrong with it ?' but it did strike me as a boat which might suit you; was going to mention ( I'm sure I've seen them with tabernacles, though it's still a hefty mast singlehanded ) but you started on these Hunters !

I'm not saying the Liberty / Minstrel is a no-hoper, just needs looking at very carefuly re. sailing qualities, while a Centaur, well we know she could do it easily, perhaps too easily ?!

 

[dylanwinter]

I agree

Dylan,

while surfing through E-Bay the other day I saw a Centaur - one of the unfortunates which has had wheel steering added - with a newish diesel, looked Ok in the pic, around £5,000.

Now the ovbious question is 'what's wrong with it ?' but it did strike me as a boat which might suit you; was going to mention ( I'm sure I've seen them with tabernacles, though it's still a hefty mast singlehanded ) but you started on these Hunters !

I'm not saying the Liberty / Minstrel is a no-hoper, just needs looking at very carefuly re. sailing qualities, while a Centaur, well we know she could do it easily, perhaps too easily ?!

the centaur would make the orkneys very feasible

I do also have the duck punt for the more extreme exploring

no avenues closed off yet

packed off nine dvd sets today....

all useful for the boat kitty

D

 

[chrisedwards]

I have not given up on the Centaur

I know that it would be the best boat for the job

It is just that there is no way that I can stop spending money on it

even just keeping one ashore or on a mooring is going to cost me money

the gear is big and getting under bridges is next to impossible

I could not have really used one to explore the Broads or the top of the Butley

and looking back through the films.....

running an old inboard diesel has been an extremely stressful business and has cost me lost me a massive amount of sailing time

If I have a four stroke outbioard in a well I can replace the whole engine unit for £1000

with a diesel a replacement engine is closer to five times that.

On the other hand.... if 3,000 westerly owners bought the DVDs.....

however..... no idea what the next year holds financially

going to keep the slug for at least this year

Dylan

I loathe having a diesel engine - I miss my old Kingfisher with a retractable outboard and closing well. One day I'll cut a dirty big hole for a an outboard in my present 30 footer. Ken Endean has got it right with a sliding bracket on his Sabre 27.

Now - you like Hunters - how about a horizon 26 with the outboard in a well in the cockpit locker - it retracts as well. This could be a suitable compromise?

 

[dylanwinter]

love hate

I loathe having a diesel engine - I miss my old Kingfisher with a retractable outboard and closing well. One day I'll cut a dirty big hole for a an outboard in my present 30 footer. Ken Endean has got it right with a sliding bracket on his Sabre 27.

Now - you like Hunters - how about a horizon 26 with the outboard in a well in the cockpit locker - it retracts as well. This could be a suitable compromise?

for me it is a love hate relationship


I hate the bills and the fear and the ever-present smell of diesel and the fact that the bilges are always wet because of the cutlass gland. I hate the fact that over the past two years it has cost me six weeks sailing and a shed load of money.

I love the fuel economy, the dry heat, the relative quiet, the power it offers for re-charging batteries (with three cameras on board I have about 15 batteries to keep charged, plus the laptop, plus the re-chargeable lights and the two batteries on the boat).

will some-one please tell me a story about a diesel inboard that has run faultlessly for a decade and 5,000 hours

 

[Tranona]

for me it is a love hate relationship

will some-one please tell me a story about a diesel inboard that has run faultlessly for a decade and 5,000 hours

Not quite 5000, but 3500. Volvo/Perkins 2030. Think you will find modern engines in a different league from your ancient Volvo - or indeed any older engine. Know many Yanmars in charter boats, particularly lead boats in flotillas that have done well over 10000 hours.

Problems are rarely with the basic engine, but with installation, lack of maintenance and most importantly lack of use.

If you can find a boat with a recent (last 10 years or so) and properly installed Beta/Nanni, Yanmar or Volvo, there is no reason why it should not outlast you.

 

[blackbeard]

for me it is a love hate relationship


I hate the ...ever-present smell of diesel and the fact that the bilges are always wet because of the cutlass gland. ....

Should be no appreciable smell, and NO leaks from stern gland - Volvo stern gland is OK provided replaced when worn (ie after several years)
BUT you forgot to mention prop foul from pot lines and general semi-floating rubbish. Also the loss of speed and handling when under sail, due to fixed prop - might as well tow a bucket.

Pros and cons for inboard and outboard. Grass in next field is greener. But if I were buying something less than 25 ' long I would prefer an outboard

 

[dylanwinter]

you speak wise words

Should be no appreciable smell, and NO leaks from stern gland - Volvo stern gland is OK provided replaced when worn (ie after several years)
BUT you forgot to mention prop foul from pot lines and general semi-floating rubbish. Also the loss of speed and handling when under sail, due to fixed prop - might as well tow a bucket.

Pros and cons for inboard and outboard. Grass in next field is greener. But if I were buying something less than 25 ' long I would prefer an outboard

You speak wise words

They are pretty much designed to leak

replaced it two summers ago

after an encounter with fishing gear now you come to mention it

and given that the Liberty needs more ballast - batteries are pretty heavy

the slug has two - I could take four

I don't really want to live with a windvane

solar panels - flexible ones

just on the cabin roof

Is it worth even considering the battery charging you get from a 6hp outboard

An hour of beast time gives the batteries a pretty good top up.

Some-one on here reported a liberty sitting unloved in a boat yard but the owner did not want to sell it

does anyone on here know of such a boat

and what is better for my purposes

Liberty or Minstrel

Dylan










Dylan

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

I have a Mariner 5hp 100:1 2-stroke with charging coil; while not a patch on a diesels' alternator, ( and modern - HEAVY - 4-stroke 'saildrive' outboards give twice the charging at 6amps ) still well worth plugging in when motoring for any length of time, especially if trundling in a calm on autopilot.

I also have a flexible 30 watt solar panel; for a start, beware these things seem to lose the odd cell ( say 1.5" square ) after a few years, when the first one did this I thought it was winch handle or even hardish shoe strikes, but after being careful with the second the same thing has happened.

However, I still find 13.9V on the battery montor - to be completely honest I'm not sure how long this could be sustained if living aboard more than a few weeks, having to charge camera batteries; in a perfect world I suppose a wind charger as well would complete the suite, but I hate the things for noise, vibration, windage and last but not least scalping.

I think I'd use 'shore power' via plugging in a simple battery charger on the odd marina stay.

The outboard charging coil will still work the lights directly if the battery goes t**s up though, which is worthwhile.

The Centaur - given say a modern Beta engine - will be very user friendly, but that doesn't quite seem your ethos; and I still cringe at the way lobster pots are left in more cunningly destructive places than minelayers ever dreamed of...

 

[dylanwinter]

correct - been got three times by fishing reklated detritus so far on the journey

Dylan,

I have a Mariner 5hp 100:1 2-stroke with charging coil; while not a patch on a diesels' alternator, ( and modern - HEAVY - 4-stroke 'saildrive' outboards give twice the charging at 6amps ) still well worth plugging in when motoring for any length of time, especially if trundling in a calm on autopilot.

I also have a flexible 30 watt solar panel; for a start, beware these things seem to lose the odd cell ( say 1.5" square ) after a few years, when the first one did this I thought it was winch handle or even hardish shoe strikes, but after being careful with the second the same thing has happened.

However, I still find 13.9V on the battery montor - to be completely honest I'm not sure how long this could be sustained if living aboard more than a few weeks, having to charge camera batteries; in a perfect world I suppose a wind charger as well would complete the suite, but I hate the things for noise, vibration, windage and last but not least scalping.

I think I'd use 'shore power' via plugging in a simple battery charger on the odd marina stay.

The outboard charging coil will still work the lights directly if the battery goes t**s up though, which is worthwhile.

The Centaur - given say a modern Beta engine - will be very user friendly, but that doesn't quite seem your ethos; and I still cringe at the way lobster pots are left in more cunningly destructive places than minelayers ever dreamed of...

I agree

an outboard will be safest and I really want it in a well in front of the rudder.


Dylan

 

[SP2]

Dylan,

On our Minstrel we had flexible solar panels and charging from the OB - but the latter was fairly meager. That said, we never ran out of juice and our NASA battery monitor kept an eye on things.

We did not run a film studio or editing suite - just a fixed DSC VHF and chartplotter and autopilot as well as domestic lights and nav lights when necessary.

We also lifted the OB out of the well when not in use to avoid the watery end fizzing away which is not unknown at Chatham Marina so further reducing maintenance costs whilst acting as a free gym session.

On our westerly Tiger we had a well sorted Volvo 2001 which never missed a beat and always started on the button yet there was always the nagging worry of picking up a pot even with a rope cutter.

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

please excuse me, I hope this is not entirely thread drift...

SP2,

I have a boat with an outboard well, even with her I cringe at the thought of getting pinned by the stern in a place like Portland inshore passage in something like a F6+, where some absolute ***************'s lay lobster pots, the marker buoys are pulled just underwater as soon as the tide gets going !

I think the 'long lopper' pruning jobs from garden centres are the short term answer ( ideally with serrated blade attached ), the long term one being putting something in the water where these ( I'm told semi-amateur ) lobster fishermen themselves breed.

When I had a boat with an inboard going along the South- West coast I was constantly worried about this having seen what was going on, and there's no way I'd try Portland inshore passage at night or in any daytime weather where I didn't have time to free off a fouled prop'; so I stick to offshore which means if going Eastwards I'm going to Poole, if going West I go straight from Studland to Brixham or Dartmouth; the Weymouth fishermen have brought this on their town.

There are many obvious benefits to an outboard in a well for boats less than 25', it's light, usually in front of the rudder for handling, easily accessible to work on or refuel without losing tools or self / crew over the back, and one can take it home to work on, for the winter ( and flushing in fresh water ) or even to replace, I also remove the engine and stow it if sailing any distance, fitting a fairing plug giving a smooth almost drag-free hull, & after work or taking the engine home can just stroll up and bung the engine aboard; try that with a Diesel !

Edit; for your purposes Dylan, having a NASA battery monitor I'd suggest you would be well off going for something more professional...

 

[chrisedwards]

Dylan,
I don't know much about Libertys or Minstrels but I have a high opinion of Hunter boats in general having owned two and being on close terms with several others at my sailing club where they are well thought of. There is an active owners' association for the Liberty and Minstrel here http://www.hlmoa.org.uk/ . Contradicting what has been suggested about the unsuitability of the boats for the open sea, a Hunter Liberty was sailed across the Atlantic some years ago, she was called the Golden Wind and was modified to carry junk rig on her two masts. This link may also be of interest to you: http://bunning.co.uk/assets/commentaries/Peridot is bought.htm

I know of a single masted junk rig Liberty which crossed the Atlantic supporting above poster. There are several converted to this rig. If you would like to have a go with the rig when you are in this area just let me know- we have ten in our little muddy creek.

 

[johnphilip]

KEEP HUNTERing

The Hunter philosophy with all their earlier boats was to be lively sailors with good performance, plenty of sail and the engine, as on my Delta was therefore used a lot less. ( Creeping up river quite happily and silently while the "Seaworthy" brigade had to motor home or stand and wait for the tide to ease. I suppose rather like the E boat you said you had but not quite so racy. I always admired the Liberty but know nowt further about her, The philosophy of the boat seems great, enjoy the slug until you find one.
Lookin on the Association page For Sale they do however look somewhat pricey pound for pound, better sell more DVDs.

 

[dylanwinter]

£9,000

The Hunter philosophy with all their earlier boats was to be lively sailors with good performance, plenty of sail and the engine, as on my Delta was therefore used a lot less. ( Creeping up river quite happily and silently while the "Seaworthy" brigade had to motor home or stand and wait for the tide to ease. I suppose rather like the E boat you said you had but not quite so racy. I always admired the Liberty but know nowt further about her, The philosophy of the boat seems great, enjoy the slug until you find one.
Lookin on the Association page For Sale they do however look somewhat pricey pound for pound, better sell more DVDs.

they do seem awfully pricey and I really like the look of the Gunter version on the website

but even if I got £1500 for the slug that is still a gap of £7,500

after post and packing each dvd set contributes £10 towards the fund

750 DVD sets

I think that so far I have sold about 400

obvioulsy the slug, the petrol for getting to and from the boat and mooring costs have eaten all that several times over

as for using the engine

- I also use mine as little as possible

but I do need one that will start, get me out of trouble and not involve me in massive repair bills

My best hope is to spend more time not filming boats - hence next winter's three month job in New Zealand filming on cattle stations while living in the back of a van with the camera gear

one way or another it looks as though KTL is likely to be grinding slowly to a temporary halt

Dylan