Hunter Liberty 22 and Liberty/Minstral 23 differences

[bremar]

I almost managed the purchase of a Hunter Liberty 22 that had been sitting for over 2 years in a boat yard after coming off its moorings, but just before travelling down with the agreed price the boat yard said "a bit more money is needed, how much more would you offer". I walked away at that stage a little annoyed.
Still looking for a hunter Liberty/Minstral and my discussions with a friend brings me to my 2 questions
1. The differences between the 22 and 23 versions of these boats appears to be a) Window shapes b) bigger rig on the 23 and c) That the 23 had an additional 300lb (140kg) of ballast added ,mainly (or all) in the form of deeper and heavier cast iron bilge keels.
With ref to c) I was told that the reason for the addition ballast was that the 22 was susceptible to a wipe out and wasn't happy self righting.( I know if you reef earlier that could avoid the situation anyway)
Does anyone know how true this is and will just adding 300lb (140kg) to the 22 resolve this or are the 2 deeper bilge keels the important bits.
Do I therefore concentrate on finding 23 rather than a 22 because overall it is a better boat??
2. Trailers-. When I bought my last trailer sailer it was on its original trailer it came with. Turned out the boat was 130kg heaver than capacity of trailer even when completely stripped of everything not nailed down.
Not wanting to be in that position again does anyone know if a) the 22 and 23 piggyback trailers were the same and b) the plated weights of these trailers. Normally the plate will have at least the maximium total combined weight of trailer and boat (and sometimes the trailer weight which allows you to then calculate the max boat weight that can be put on the trailer )
I ask this because I can tow upto 2100kg so if the trailer happens to be plated with a higher max weight I can't tow it. And if I buy a 22 with its original trailer then add the 140kg extra ballast to bring it in line with a 23 will that then exceed the max trailer weight.
Ideally I will be very happy if the max plated trailer weight is 2000kg ( or say 4,400/4,500lb) as I believe this will allow sufficient leaway to add all the other bits and pieces for a boat and the ballast and still be under 2000kg.
I'm going to post this question on the Hunter Liberty and Minstral Owners Association site too as I am now a member, but thought past owners etc may have a view and the answers might be helpful for any prospective buyers.

Thank you anyone for any thoughts on this.
Bremar.

 

[cat ketch]

I have had both a 22 and a 23 and both were great boats. The 23 felt a bit heavier, not just as lively an responsive as the 22, but still a nice boat to sail. The windows on the 22 are better, and look better than the 23, but the biggest difference I noticed was that the 23 had heavier masts, and I would not want a 22 which had not had the masts sleeved to the same spec as the 23, but then you need to add the extra ballast - easily done with internal ballast - to counteract the extra weight aloft, and then increase the sail area to push the heavier boat. If the 22 was cheap enough to allow you to make the changes then I would be be quite happy with one.

 

[bremar]

1. Thanks cat ketch. I think your post nicely sums up the general position. Hi Geoff. I guess when you I made a statement in my first post above that I was told that the reason for the addition ballast was that the 22 was susceptible to a wipe out and wasn't happy self righting. That was probably my incorrect interpretation of a conversation I had had. It would have been more correct to say there had been reported incidents of the 22 being laid flat but no such incidents have ever been reported with regard to the heavier ballasted 23. This is probably better put in context by someone who later said to me "First time I have heard this idea and I have been involved since I boat tested the prototype in 1980"
2. The ballast difference appears to be 200lb not 300lb.(140kg)
3. Simply adding 200lb (91kg) of ballast to a 22 may put extra strain on the existing rig which might need sleeving to strengthen it.
4. It has been suggested that the heaver rig on the 23 includes bigger sails and heavier/stronger masts?
5. As yet I haven't found out what the actual details are on the relevant trailer plates used on the trailers for the 22 and 23. It's important to note that there is a difference between the plate on the tow hitch and the plate on the trailer. The tow hitch plate will say weights min and max to indicate the range of trailer weights it is suitable for. It is the trailer plate that is the important one here.
6. An interesting observation was that, as an alternative to putting heavier ballast in a 22 you could replace the aluminium masts with carbon. Expensive but an alternative.
Just thought I'd update the link.
Thank you
Bremar.