Huge Engines on inland waterways

[jon and michie]

The previous owner of my boat had it on the broads which at tick over was over the speed limit.
Also seen a bavaria 300 sport with twin kads kept on there.

 

[limecc]

Is there a market here to remove large but tired diesels and replace with twin electric drives for inland use?
There are clearly massive range and economic issues for electric boats in coastal and offshore boating, but they are ideal for inland use
- low speeds and modest distances ideal for electric
- low emissions and low noise
- easy access to shore power charging
- no need for fancy expensive systems & batteries - motors are cheap, and lead acid batteries are fine where weight is not an issue (and removing two diesels will require reballasting anyway)

There is an emerging market in fitting electric motors in classic cars (barking in most cases, as the engine is often a large part of the character), but converting boats for inland use could be a much better application. Do a refurb of the boat and interior at the same time and have a very attractive commercial proposition.

Add a DC generator and could be a range extender to nip across the Channel to the French canals, or North Sea to Netherlands.

Brill idea. I think battery weight at the stern would be a problem though, losing the engine wouldn't compensate enough.

Works on narrowboats:
Vlog 244: Electric Dreams – Cruising The Cut

 

[dunedin]

Brill idea. I think battery weight at the stern would be a problem though, losing the engine wouldn't compensate enough.

Works on narrowboats:
Vlog 244: Electric Dreams – Cruising The Cut

I suspect that batteries and drives would be lighter than most twin diesels designed for fast coastal use. But yes would need to do a bit of calculations of weight taken out and put back in to determine optimum position for batteries. Also needs to take account of removal (or reduction if using a range extender) of weight of diesel.

 

[julians]

Brill idea. I think battery weight at the stern would be a problem though, losing the engine wouldn't compensate enough.

Works on narrowboats:
Vlog 244: Electric Dreams – Cruising The Cut

batteries would go where the fuel tanks are today - ie middle'ish on most boats

 

[The Q]

Is there a market here to remove large but tired diesels and replace with twin electric drives for inland use?
There are clearly massive range and economic issues for electric boats in coastal and offshore boating, but they are ideal for inland use
- low speeds and modest distances ideal for electric
- low emissions and low noise
- easy access to shore power charging
- no need for fancy expensive systems & batteries - motors are cheap, and lead acid batteries are fine where weight is not an issue (and removing two diesels will require reballasting anyway)

There is an emerging market in fitting electric motors in classic cars (barking in most cases, as the engine is often a large part of the character), but converting boats for inland use could be a much better application. Do a refurb of the boat and interior at the same time and have a very attractive commercial proposition.

Add a DC generator and could be a range extender to nip across the Channel to the French canals, or North Sea to Netherlands.

If only, most of the charging points put in for electric boats are occupied by tourist boats, so they can watch a big TV all night while the wives and daughters can use hair driers and curing tongs..

 

[dunedin]

If only, most of the charging points put in for electric boats are occupied by tourist boats, so they can watch a big TV all night while the wives and daughters can use hair driers and curing tongs..

Surely only “tourist” (ie touring) boats need charging of their drive batteries - houseboats don’t have that problem.
Or is there a ”them” and “us” thinking here?

 

[The Q]

No tourist boats, are Hire Boats hired by the tourist for the week or fortnight there are nearly 1000 of them on the broads, out everyday for 6 months of the year.. 99% of them are diesel powered, but are on the electric points every night so they charge their games machines, do their hair etc.
They may have had 15 minutes instruction on the boat, forwards , backwards , how to tie up and not a lot more..

See here the biggest of the hire boat companies.. Richardson's, Stalham - Richardson's Boating Holidays

Sadly for many it's no different to going on holiday on the Costa Del Sol, all they are looking for is to moor at a pub or near one, and have all the comforts of home on tap.

 

[Slowboat35]

I have two acquaintances who own 30-32ft boats that look to me like cabin crusiers but one has a 90Hp inboard and the other twin 45s.
Another has a similar sized boat with 25Hp that does 7Kts. He consders that overpowered for the Broads.
Neither of the big engined boats can plane and neither can exceed 9Kts although the wash they create with the bow pointing at the sky is awesome. Both claim them to be suitable for the sea but the ride would be hideously uncomfortable offshore unless it was a flat calm and the fuel consumption catastrophic.
What posesses anyone to put so much money into engines that are so inappropriate for the job regardless of whether you want high or low speeds? The blimmen things are neither fish nor fowl.

 

[harvey38]

That is certainly an engine I can understand. Looks like the one I had in my Vauxhall Viva…………………. In the evolution of engines where or where did it go wrong. Back in those days we had never heard of Limp mode, ECU, EGR valves, Sensors, some bloke plugging it into his laptop to diagnose and replacing ‘modules’ at massive cost and it still not being fixed…………. Apparently it is progress

Ford Anglia actually, 105e push rod motor, I removed the original dynamo, changed it over to a negative system, fitted an alternator to feed a start and house battery but kept the original dizzy and points as it ran so sweetly. As you say, no need for sensors, ECUs, the crankcase breather vented directly into the air filter so possibly the evolution of an EGR ???

 

[dunedin]

No tourist boats, are Hire Boats hired by the tourist for the week or fortnight there are nearly 1000 of them on the broads, out everyday for 6 months of the year.. 99% of them are diesel powered, but are on the electric points every night so they charge their games machines, do their hair etc.
They may have had 15 minutes instruction on the boat, forwards , backwards , how to tie up and not a lot more..

See here the biggest of the hire boat companies.. Richardson's, Stalham - Richardson's Boating Holidays

Sadly for many it's no different to going on holiday on the Costa Del Sol, all they are looking for is to moor at a pub or near one, and have all the comforts of home on tap.

So you are clearly differentiating in your mind between boat users who are in hire boats and privately owned boats, and seem to suggest they should have different rights to use visitor facilities. Both are “tourists” when using such visitor facilities,

 

[The Q]

So you are clearly differentiating in your mind between boat users who are in hire boats and privately owned boats, and seem to suggest they should have different rights to use visitor facilities. Both are “tourists” when using such visitor facilities,

I live here, as do many that own boats... When we lived very close to river I used to go to the supermarket in one, the rivers are a way of life for many here..

Most of the people who own boats on the broads generally are self sufficient and more interested in the area and scenery . a great many of the tourists are only interested in the next pub.

As for the use of the power points round the broads they were put there for electric boat use, but it's almost impossible to get near one with an electric boat during tourist season, which is the point I'm trying to make..

 

[Bigplumbs]

So you are clearly differentiating in your mind between boat users who are in hire boats and privately owned boats, and seem to suggest they should have different rights to use visitor facilities. Both are “tourists” when using such visitor facilities,

You are being very politically correct. The Truth is that if you are the owner of a boat on the Broads (Particularly the Northern Broads) You fear for your boat because of the Hire boats and what the people in them will do. No one seems to have told them that they don't have brakes and that the arse swings out like hell when turned sharply. I have seen a heard a moored boat hit so hard with a big hire boat that I was convinced that it had been crushed. If you have never been on the Nothern Broads in Summer you will probably find it difficult to understand.

Very Different but similar to being at Hamble Le Rice on a lovely August Bank Holiday. Main difference being that most people on the Hamble know how to handle their boats.

The level of tuition that a hire boat person is given is very scary and I would say that 15 mins is the max. Also remember that many of these boats are 40 ft long and quite wide

Here is what one hire company describe as mid range

 

[Bigplumbs]

These are quite gentle but this might give you some idea of what the Broads can be like

 

[dj43]

These are quite gentle but this might give you some idea of what the Broads can be like

In fairness the southern broads aren't so bad, or weren't , also the hire boats do not have any thrusters or other aids as far as I know, only a single engine and yes max 20 mins tuition if that, always used to amaze me that they actually used to get anywhere ? , Plus they think all boats are hired and fair game, if your going to do your boating in a holiday hot spot for hire boats ,especially the Northants broads have to expect a little bumping ?,
Mind you there's lots of that in marinas on the south coast

 

[paradave]

If you have never been on the Nothern Broads in Summer you will probably find it difficult to understand.

I bet no one can understand what it’s like apart from you. The south coast marinas and River Thames are so quiet that you never see anyone, let alone out of control.

 

[Sneds]

Something like this which is a 27 footer with a small outboard about 40 hp. That would have no issues on most inland stuff me thinks

Viking 275 For Sale | Norfolk Yacht Agency | NYH104327

View attachment 129958
if that were a sea boat that would have the min of a 170 ish hp lump or if a couple of feet longer 2 of the same

My first thought was £74k! But I guess it is nearly brand new and must confess looks rather smart.

 

[fred247]

what about lack of river side petrol on a lot of inland water ways "espeacially the broads" and officially no refueling from Jerry cans, " just saying"

 

[Greg2]

All six of our boats have been sea boats with large-ish engines (not all fast boats) and all have been used on the Broads with no issues. Some have been quicker than others on tick over but we have always been able to keep to speed limits. We chose such boats because we like to cruise inland and at sea and we have enjoyed our Broads boating as well as cruises to Holland (inland and coastal cruising), the east coast and the non-tidal Thames.

About four years ago we did look at smaller boats with a view to getting something just for pottering around on the Broads but there wasn’t a deal of choice and what there was we didn’t like so we ended up with a Sealine S34 with 170hp KAD32s! It has to be said that despite the combination of a planing hull and outdrives she was equally at home on the river and at sea.
.

 

[Momac]

So I surpose my Question is why are there so many sea boats with monster worrying and expensive engines on inland waters.

What's to worry about.
Cruising on a river is very relaxing.

The quality of fit out and general comfort in most sea boats far exceeds most inland waterways cruisers.
I get the impression you are only interested in day trips while a lot of peole like to use the interior accommodation for weekends and longer holidays.

 

[Bigplumbs]

What's to worry about.
Cruising on a river is very relaxing.

The quality of fit out and general comfort in most sea boats far exceeds most inland waterways cruisers.
I get the impression you are only interested in day trips while a lot of peole like to use the interior accommodation for weekends and longer holidays.

My Question had nothing to do with Day Trips. We use our S24 to stay on just as you describe