Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Why wait ? Just go & do it now while your still young & fit enough to enjoy it.
How to finance liveaboard
- Thread starter sveinutne
- Start date
Why wait ? Just go & do it now while your still young & fit enough to enjoy it.
sveinutne
Member
Part of me wants to go now, but there is an other part that wants financial security. It is still 6 years befor I can start collecting any pension money, so I think I go for the midl ground, and wait a year or two.
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sveinutne
Member
If Turkey is easier to start a charter business in, then I wonder if there is a lot of extra hassle sailing into Greece water.
If you are located in Bodrum, and the guests wants to see Kos?
If you are located in Bodrum, and the guests wants to see Kos?
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Have you given any thought as to where you are going to find all these ''guests'' ? rich guests at that.
sveinutne
Member
That will be an important part of the operation. I was planing to make some tour in Norway showing pictures and inform people about the possibility of having a Norwegian speaking shipper, and give full service. They can be helped in any way they like. pickup at the airport with transport to the yacht. Food drinks massage, and all the service they like.
ribrage
Well-Known Member
Svein
Having worked in norway for a norwegian company Am I wrong in thinking that the majority of Norwegians speak English and I'd hazard a guess that the vastly majority of wealthy Norwegians would definitely speak English as a second language , so your idea of Norwegian speaking skipper would not hold a great deal of merit.
If I were you I'd go buy some property somewhere and a boat at least half the size you have mentioned, rent the house out (at least the capital is secure )and it provides you with a trickle of an income until that fig fat Norwegian pension pays out and you are set to cruise around Greece , turkey or where ever without "smelly cargo" making a mess of your boat and demanding ketchup on their caviar .
Most on here will steer you well away from what you are suggesting , the best way to earn a small fortune in the marine sector is to start with a big fortune
Just another voice
Having worked in norway for a norwegian company Am I wrong in thinking that the majority of Norwegians speak English and I'd hazard a guess that the vastly majority of wealthy Norwegians would definitely speak English as a second language , so your idea of Norwegian speaking skipper would not hold a great deal of merit.
If I were you I'd go buy some property somewhere and a boat at least half the size you have mentioned, rent the house out (at least the capital is secure )and it provides you with a trickle of an income until that fig fat Norwegian pension pays out and you are set to cruise around Greece , turkey or where ever without "smelly cargo" making a mess of your boat and demanding ketchup on their caviar .
Most on here will steer you well away from what you are suggesting , the best way to earn a small fortune in the marine sector is to start with a big fortune
Just another voice
maby
Well-Known Member
I guess the bottom line is that the lifestyle you are describing is one which would be attractive to many people, so any easy way to finance it will be seriously oversubscribed!
sveinutne
Member
Thank you all for a lot of good advice. I have just started thinking about this way of life, but I see I need to do a lot of research before making any moves.
syfuga
Well-Known Member
Svein,
I think many people underestimate the true cost of living aboard a boat. We have completed 10 years on Fuga (see link below), and to maintain a modest lifestyle and keep the boat in good running repair costs money. In our case I reckon about 20KGBP a year, not using marinas in season and doing all work on the boat ourselves. Marinas are expensive, particularly in parts of Spain, Italy and south of France. A larger boat such as you are suggesting will be very expensive.
I have a friend who markets his large sailing yacht, registered in the Isle of Mann, for charter. The work comes mainly from agencies, and in a good year he will get about 6 charters. He pays for crew, and all services, to deliver a 'luxury' product into both Caribbean and Med markets. I do not know, but imagine that this is is marginally profitable, can go either way, and must need considerable financial muscle.
I think you need to be very realistic about your plans and budget available.
I think many people underestimate the true cost of living aboard a boat. We have completed 10 years on Fuga (see link below), and to maintain a modest lifestyle and keep the boat in good running repair costs money. In our case I reckon about 20KGBP a year, not using marinas in season and doing all work on the boat ourselves. Marinas are expensive, particularly in parts of Spain, Italy and south of France. A larger boat such as you are suggesting will be very expensive.
I have a friend who markets his large sailing yacht, registered in the Isle of Mann, for charter. The work comes mainly from agencies, and in a good year he will get about 6 charters. He pays for crew, and all services, to deliver a 'luxury' product into both Caribbean and Med markets. I do not know, but imagine that this is is marginally profitable, can go either way, and must need considerable financial muscle.
I think you need to be very realistic about your plans and budget available.
sveinutne
Member
I guess there might be a fine balance between what is friends chipping in on the cost and charter, so I wonder if any got some ruling of what is accepted and what is not.
To keep the cost down I guess a sailboat might be much cheaper to operate than a motor yacht, so for this example let say I buy an old Bavaria 49. On Facebook I inform friends they are welcome to sail with me as long as they cover the expenses. Is that OK?
To keep the cost down I guess a sailboat might be much cheaper to operate than a motor yacht, so for this example let say I buy an old Bavaria 49. On Facebook I inform friends they are welcome to sail with me as long as they cover the expenses. Is that OK?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You get into a grey area here. In the UK the distinction is pretty clear on paper. To be considered a private boat (and therefore not subject to commercial rules) it has to be used by the owner, relatives or friends personal use, and any crew must be friends and contribute to no more costs than are incurred specifically for the voyage. Therefore, food, drink, mooring fees, fuel, but not any contribution to running costs and capital costs.
In practice interpretation is difficult, for example defining who is a friend and what are reasonable costs. How you choose crew and what control they have over where and when you go are two grey areas. Advertising for example might be an indication you are running a business, but many crew are found through commercial crewing sites. In the UK you do not need a charter licence, but if you are operating commercially the boat needs to be coded, so there are no doubt some people operating "under the radar" with the constant risk of being found out.
In most other countries there are more formalities (although the requirements are similar) and it would be much more difficult to try and operate without the necessary licences. In Greece in particular, although it is possible to operate with a non Greek (but EU) registered boat, you still need a licence and obtaining one is very difficult without a Greek partner. Similar situation applies in Croatia. Local officials in those two countries (as in many Mediterranean countries) have a lot of power to interpret rules and apply sanctions, making it risky to try and work outside the system.
So, the advice you are getting here is good advice. Many of the people who have responded have either been involved in chartering or have lived among the chartering community.
It is quite possible to live a comfortable on board life in Greece or Turkey for well under 20k euros a year with a modest boat, and there are opportunities to blend this with some form of work that does not involve the boat. No reason why you should not have occasional guests to stay, but it needs to be clear that they are occasional and are guests to avoid attracting attention.
Spi D
...
Still borderlining to justify your dream come true?
Rules covering commercial charter are there for a reason. Protects both sides of the contract, so to speak.
Taking friends is OK, but calling paying passengers 'friends' to get below the radar even take their acceptance of not having any rights in any case or dispute.
By inviting guests you as host accept the risk of damage to yourself and your boat. Check your insurance..
Imagine what happens if
-a passenger is injured and rely on your insurance
-a passenger think you did not perform or provide adequate services and report you to the authorities
Rules covering commercial charter are there for a reason. Protects both sides of the contract, so to speak.
Taking friends is OK, but calling paying passengers 'friends' to get below the radar even take their acceptance of not having any rights in any case or dispute.
By inviting guests you as host accept the risk of damage to yourself and your boat. Check your insurance..
Imagine what happens if
-a passenger is injured and rely on your insurance
-a passenger think you did not perform or provide adequate services and report you to the authorities
sveinutne
Member
Thank you Tranona,
I think I start to get the picture now. This might give me a chance to start small and some years earlier than my pension, and then while sailing, sometimes with friends chipping in, I can learn more about the trade. Then after sailing a year in Greece, Turkey and Croatia I will know more about the business.
I think I start to get the picture now. This might give me a chance to start small and some years earlier than my pension, and then while sailing, sometimes with friends chipping in, I can learn more about the trade. Then after sailing a year in Greece, Turkey and Croatia I will know more about the business.
sveinutne
Member
Hi Spi D
I think if the price is just paying for expenses, they can not demand anything more than that. If they do not like it they can go home. My insurance should cover all on the boat no matter if they are family or just friends.
I think if the price is just paying for expenses, they can not demand anything more than that. If they do not like it they can go home. My insurance should cover all on the boat no matter if they are family or just friends.
sveinutne
Member
I think if friends come and pay for all expenses, and when they go home and later give like €100 in donation per person like a tip or tanks. Then the one that is satisfied might do it, and the one that are not do not pay. I guess in business the customer has to commit to payment in advance, but if they voluntarily pay afterwards it might me more "proof" of friendship.
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Get away with ya. Your in business to make money not bl00dy friends.
Am I the only one getting the feeling this thread is a wind-up ??
Am I the only one getting the feeling this thread is a wind-up ??
maby
Well-Known Member
Just don't take any Americans - they are a litigious bunch and will sue at the drop of a hat.
I guess the bottom line is that you are sailing very close to the wind with this scheme and everything will go fine until something goes wrong - at which point it has the potential to go very wrong. If somebody gets injured or is very dissatisfied with the service you deliver, you will not have any protection from either the law or an insurance company - tread very carefully.
I guess the bottom line is that you are sailing very close to the wind with this scheme and everything will go fine until something goes wrong - at which point it has the potential to go very wrong. If somebody gets injured or is very dissatisfied with the service you deliver, you will not have any protection from either the law or an insurance company - tread very carefully.
sveinutne
Member
Yes, I have been living a year and a half in the US, and I know Americans can be very friendly, but they also like to sue.
Maybe I should have all my friends sign a document before entering the boat where I protect myself from such.
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sveinutne
Member
For me to be able to retire some years early gives me a feeling of relive and freedom. If I end up doing it is still and open question, but just knowing that I might is a very good feeling. Also to know I might find a way to make some small income or cost splitting also helps.
It might not be the income I first had in mind, but it will give me the freedom to go between many different countries, and not just one as most charter operator got to stick to.
Then I could start to look at the type of boat that will suite me best. A boat with four or five cabins might be fine, but maybe not too big. I might have to be able to sail it my self some times.
It might not be the income I first had in mind, but it will give me the freedom to go between many different countries, and not just one as most charter operator got to stick to.
Then I could start to look at the type of boat that will suite me best. A boat with four or five cabins might be fine, but maybe not too big. I might have to be able to sail it my self some times.
sveinutne
Member
To sleep on it might be a good advice. After a good night sleep I think I have found the solution that will give me low risk, do not break any laws, and give me flexibility and freedom.
By renting a charter boat for 12 weeks or longer I can get a good price. For a Bavaria 49 or similar it can be less than €1000 per week. If I rent for the whole season it might be even lower. If I rent this in Greece, I can also sail into Turkey, but there might be some more paperwork at each harbor, but it is possible.
When the season is over I can just return the boat and be free to go where ever I like, like flying to Thailand for the winter. Then after a season or two I will have enough knowledge about the trade to decide if I want to buy my own boat. Then I might know how to start the business or team up with someone that is already established.
By renting a charter boat for 12 weeks or longer I can get a good price. For a Bavaria 49 or similar it can be less than €1000 per week. If I rent for the whole season it might be even lower. If I rent this in Greece, I can also sail into Turkey, but there might be some more paperwork at each harbor, but it is possible.
When the season is over I can just return the boat and be free to go where ever I like, like flying to Thailand for the winter. Then after a season or two I will have enough knowledge about the trade to decide if I want to buy my own boat. Then I might know how to start the business or team up with someone that is already established.
