How to define good engine access?

[BruceK]

One cylinder is enough for the engine bay. What you cant see is there is a functioning Halon at the back, and two more cylinders each side. Any one cylinder has enough to extinguish the bay volume. That's 5 x redundancy. The plastic ties do not secure the brackets. They are held in by two bolts. The plastic ties are there to stop the swing motion only. Oh, and they go over the head of the bolt as an added security from them vibrating loose.

I have a particular fear of fire onboard having experienced it and have further extinquishers in the cockpit, over batteries, over diesel heater, one in each of the three cabins, and two in the galley with fire blanket.

You know what they say about assumptions?

 

[Momac]

As an aside do flybridges have activation cables back to both helms?

My boat has activation from both helms.

 

[DavidJ]

That's odd.

My insurance requires only an automatic activation OR a manual activation cable. Indeed, I imagine there are many boats out there that don't have a manual activation facility.

I hate it when you’re right
Yes on inspection my insurance says the same “OR”

 

[BruceK]

As to why 5 the answer is to ensure the earliest possible detection before the fire takes hold on the GRP.

As for manual activation. Yes, the halon extinguisher is auto and manual activated.

 

[markc]

My boat is around 17m and I can easily get to each side of the engines

I think it's a bit of a red herring to suggest that getting access to the engines for major surgery is OK in a used boat because you can remove the floor and panels- the lack of ready daily access means that developing problems aren't spotted due to 'out of sight out of mind'. In a new boat that's under warranty, who cares because that's someone else's problem!

 

[Aardee]

I'm new to the "dark side", but coming from yachts there's a definite correlation between good engine access and good engine maintenance in older boats.

 

[BruceK]

I'm new to the "dark side", but coming from yachts there's a definite correlation between good engine access and good engine maintenance in older boats.

Coming from the dark side I imagine you are correct. Less so with mobo's though I think. Most Mobo'ers guard their engines more jealously than their wives. Difficult access just makes them moan more, not inspect less. Although I whole heartily embrace MarkC's comment that not being able to see developing problems is an issue. Then again thats also the benefit of keeping a clean bilge. It does provide it's own early warning system.

 

[Momac]

The image below is good engine access as far as most boats are concerned
.....although the gap between the engines is a bit tight and the space to the starboard side is also tight. But everything needing regular maintenance is accessible. I am also with the idea of clean bilge being a good indicator of developing issues. Its an older photo - needs a clean up now but servicing to do so cleaning can wait .

 

[Portofino]

My boat is around 17m and I can easily get to each side of the engines

I think it's a bit of a red herring to suggest that getting access to the engines for major surgery is OK in a used boat because you can remove the floor and panels- the lack of ready daily access means that developing problems aren't spotted due to 'out of sight out of mind'. In a new boat that's under warranty, who cares because that's someone else's problem!

Agree it’s needs to an easy and welcoming task to do the daily checks and from that get to the rest of the stuff like oil filters and impellers , strainers etc .

Removing seating first then floors would be a no no for me a walk away scenario .
Not too sure how comfortable i would be removing tenders from tender garages in the marina to access stuff either ?
You know a pontoon full of all the crap etc .Or worse you are at sea ?

I have seen some tender garage intrusion as such in rubrics cube kinda way a puzzled how they would get a valve cover off .Such was the closeness of the garage floor to the top of the motors ??
Boat shows ( not H+S U.K. crappy ones ) …….the ER hatch is the rabbit hole i descend into is get to view what lies beneath first . .Not the fridge or prawn griddle, or standing height in the mid cabins.

Engine removal is a bit of a doomsday scenario or ease of it imho .
Choose the right boat with the right motors and stuff like rusty sump or a repaint never enters into the equation going fwds .
We not talking commercial pull them every 6000 hrs here we are talking summer leisure use age .

 

[stelican]

Porto
The boat Gan is referring to has the main engine access via a very lge cockpit hatch with very good access to service points right to fwd engine bay bulkhead.
Floor panels as mentioned are also re moveable
If major work required

 

[Portofino]

Porto
The boat Gan is referring to has the main engine access via a very lge cockpit hatch with very good access to service points right to fwd engine bay bulkheads
Floor panels as mentioned are also re moveable
If major work required

Yes realise that .Making the distinction from maintenance pov .All of it should do able because all the motor sides should be accessible inc the top so removing valve covers and going further coolers + even cylinder heads without floor or furniture removal for a 57 ftr .

In other words if furniture and resultant floors need to come off it’s a dooms day pull the motors jobbie in a yard / shed .

Further more when buying used despite the best engine surveyor in the world that survey is dated and 1/2 of the waffle is exclusions , provisos and indemnity cop outs .From the date ( after the survey ) you sail off you are on your own .

There will be big difference in cost removing and refitting motors on boats designed for it with removable hatches than those with just inspection hatch’s .Talking severe surgery to furniture and patio doors , floors or worse still “soft patch “ .
“ Soft patch “in terms of boat engine removal = bigger bills and the lingering doubt it’s never glassed back up as OEM did did it .
Teak is another additional bill , having to replace it if it needed ripping up .

There will be folks on here who have boats with a hatch and that’s it , just that .

 

[Boater On Thames]

For the SQ 59, I viewed yesterday. I imagine for example if the port engine needs priming, that will need to remove the whole thing in the saloon such as sofa and floor panels to do that because the prime pump side cannot be reached from the middle of the engine room. By the way, the port engine is leaking fuel when I was visiting, and the fuel inlet and injection pump are on the side cannot be seen or reached. I think it's not easy to own a boat need to remove the whole thing in the saloon just to check, prime or repair a little thing for an engine.

 

[benjenbav]

As to why 5 the answer is to ensure the earliest possible detection before the fire takes hold on the GRP.

As for manual activation. Yes, the halon extinguisher is auto and manual activated.

Even with the limited exceptions to the ban on halon it must be quite a business to refill existing systems and out of the question to install new ones.

 

[Portofino]

I understand to swop out the exhaust manifolds on the LR discovery , the V 6 TDi modal , because of the closeness of the suspension turrets and general wheel wells they have to lift the whole body off the chassis.

It does not mean its right or “ they all like that “ the OP s sellers answer to lack of out board free space to get into and sit to phaff on .

Imagine a fast fit quick fit trainee striping the threads on a Disco while simply attempting a new exhaust.
The “ would you like to wait while it’s being done sir “ is gonna be a bit longer than first anticipated.

 

[Portofino]

For the SQ 59, I viewed yesterday. I imagine for example if the port engine needs priming, that will need to remove the whole thing in the saloon such as sofa and floor panels to do that because the prime pump side cannot be reached from the middle of the engine room. By the way, the port engine is leaking fuel when I was visiting, and the fuel inlet and injection pump are on the side cannot be seen or reached. I think it's not easy to own a boat need to remove the whole thing in the saloon just to check, prime or repair a little thing for an engine.

You are learning .

Absorb experiences on here .

 

[BruceK]

Even with the limited exceptions to the ban on halon it must be quite a business to refill existing systems and out of the question to install new ones.

Although full and functioning I did try and have it removed and replaced with equivalent. The answer I was given and indeed the consensus here at the time too, was it was too hot to handle and as it's full and functioning (at least according to all the electronic sensors attached to it) leave it alone and in-situ. Getting rid of Halon now is a bit like trying to get rid of flares. Nobody wants to do it.

 

[stelican]

For the SQ 59, I viewed yesterday. I imagine for example if the port engine needs priming, that will need to remove the whole thing in the saloon such as sofa and floor panels to do that because the prime pump side cannot be reached from the middle of the engine room. By the way, the port engine is leaking fuel when I was visiting, and the fuel inlet and injection pump are on the side cannot be seen or reached. I think it's not easy to own a boat need to remove the whole thing in the saloon just to check, prime or repair a little thing for an engine.

You better buy an itama or a boat with fuel tanks under the toilet floor then if you can't be bothered to lift a floor board up
You will have to go larger if you want that style of boat with walk round engines.

 

[Bajansailor]

Getting rid of Halon now is a bit like trying to get rid of flares. Nobody wants to do it.

Your best bet is to leave it where it is - so long as the cylinder is in reasonable condition, and the stuff does not leak out then it should be fairly 'safe' in the cylinder.
If it was removed, how would the halon be 'recycled' or properly disposed of?
Would it be less detrimental as a greenhouse gas if it was used in anger fighting a fire, compared to if it was just released to the atmosphere?
And if you ever do need to use it in anger, I understand that the effectiveness of Halon is superior to the gases that replaced it.

 

[petem]

I hate it when you’re right
Yes on inspection my insurance says the same “OR”

No worries, I am usually wrong!

 

[stelican]

Yes realise that .Making the distinction from maintenance pov .All of it should do able because all the motor sides should be accessible inc the top so removing valve covers and going further coolers + even cylinder heads without floor or furniture removal for a 57 ftr .

In other words if furniture and resultant floors need to come off it’s a dooms day pull the motors jobbie in a yard / shed .

Further more when buying used despite the best engine surveyor in the world that survey is dated and 1/2 of the waffle is exclusions , provisos and indemnity cop outs .From the date ( after the survey ) you sail off you are on your own .

There will be big difference in cost removing and refitting motors on boats designed for it with removable hatches than those with just inspection hatch’s .Talking severe surgery to furniture and patio doors , floors or worse still “soft patch “ .
“ Soft patch “in terms of boat engine removal = bigger bills and the lingering doubt it’s never glassed back up as OEM did did it .
Teak is another additional bill , having to replace it if it needed ripping up .

There will be folks on here who have boats with a hatch and that’s it , just that .

If someone wants that style of boat there's not really any alternative. On that particular brand the engines can be removed without too much trauma if by professionals (I have seen this carried out)