how much is too much?

[oliandi]

So, i'm pretty new to these things but am on the verge of buying my first classic yacht after about 20 years of passion (no jokes please!). I'm based in Italy (although i'm English) and have a limited budget but have discovered a yacht called a Cap Nord by architect Louis Vernette (see earlier post) which I like and seems to be available in the South of France. There's several available, one which has been epoxy sheathed which your forums seem to advise very strongly against (i'd be happy to hear from anyone who had a GOOD experience with doing this by the way), and the other which is lets say 'traditional'.

The boat is carvel apparently without caulking and built in 1963, mahognay on steamed oak ribs. Its 10.6 m LOA and in general good shape.

The advise i'm looking for is - how damp should a boat of this type be, I mean, how much water should come in while its in the marina and / or while its sailing?

Classic Boat mag is full of articles talking about the fact that old wooden boats leak a little but i'm a little concerned about that having only sailed drastic plastic up until now!

So when I go to test this boat how much if any water should be in it and how much should come in in say 4 hours of sailing.

One final question - i'm keeping the boat in hot mediteranean conditions so can I keep it in the water for the winter or is it best to take it out. Some seem to think that the winter drying out might cause serious distortion and water ingress problems when one puts it back in - HELP!

Andrew

 

[johnlilley]

Hi there.
without knowing the exact design & construction, a good timber boat should not really take any water in in 4 hours sailing other than a few drips from the stern tube.

Of course if really pressed she might make a little in heavy conditions, usually from stressed garboard seams other than spray etc from a non self draining cockpit. However, if you have more than two or three pumps on a standard type manual bilge pump, then you might need to look for the source.
Keel stepped masts stress the garboard (first plank from the keel) seams if there is any weakness in the floors (heavy knees in the bilge attached to the top of the keel and the first three or so planks up) or their fastenings.
If she is totally dry when idle on mooring but leaks when sailed this is a possible symptom of leaky garboards. but there are many other areas where vessels will leak when underway other than stern tube or garboards. Engine bearer bolts leak when vibrating under engine for instance if a bit waisted.

But nevertheless, you should not expect any more than absolute minimal if any leakage just because she is timber. It is a sign of developing fault somewhere, despite the fact that it could be years before it becomes worryingly serious.

There are some articles on timber structure on the website below if that helps.

Regards

John Lilley

 

[oliandi]

Thanks John

Your advice is very concise and your website is also interesting.

It seems from what i've read in diverse sources that quite a lot of water penetration problems are actually deck down rather than hull up!

Anyone have a response to the question about whether wooden boats should be hauled out or left in?

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Mukes]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems from what i've read in diverse sources that quite a lot of water penetration problems are actually deck down rather than hull up!

[/ QUOTE ]

A bit distasteful, but I checked for a leak to ascertain if it was the hull or deck leaking by tasting the bilge water for salt content. In my case it wasn't as salty as the sea water so I concluded fresh water ingress that I tracked down to the caulking in the cockpit.

Regarding hauling out over the winter, I do as do many wooden boats at my yard. When launched again they are left suspended in the cradle or in a mud berth to "take up" i.e. to let the wood soak up water and expand to close the seams. The fact that I am on the very damp (winter and summer) East Coast may well make a difference to the Med.

(The above to be read with the knowledge that I am far from expert in these matters having only owned a wooden boat for 3 years.)

 

[Tranona]

As you have realised, most of the rot in wooden boats comes from fressh water coming through leaks in the deck, made worse in hot climates by superstructures drying out and leaking!. So the most important things are to keep decks covered at all times when the boat is moored and paint horizontal surfaces with a colour such as cream, that reflects rather than absorbs light/heat. There is no problem keeping the boat in the water all year round, because this keeps the moisture content in th hull constant. A couple of weeks out each year is all that is needed for paint and maintenance.

Wooden boats are hauled out for the winter in UK because sailing from, say, a swinging mooring is not feasible in the winter. However, traditionally many boats were laid up in mud berths with the mast taken out and an overall cover put on. Rich people might store under cover in a shed, but this can lead to drying out problems.

Many wooden boats like mine are kept in a marina berth all year round and an overall cover on. Been doing this for 15 years with no problems.

 

[DownWest]

Just a personal view, a friend had his boat in Vilamoura for some time and one could see daylight through the planks in the topside, subsequently he tried to enter the Guardiana on a falling tide (4-5kts) Grounded on a sandbank and fell over, filled up though said planks and lost her. This was a `39 built 36ft gaff cutter. So, I would keep her in the water and make sure the topsides are kept humide with salt water. Fresh water causes most of the rot problems in wooden boats, a rain protect cover would be a good investment. Keep the sun off too, as mentioned.
Andrew