How much is a brand new traditional steel boat?

Orion Jim said:
I've had the honor of speaking to Dudley Dix on two occasions at the Woodenboat Show in Mystic, Connecticut, USA. He is a fascinating fellow. I'm sure if you contacted him he would answer any questions you might have and he has a wealth of experience in guiding those bringing his designs to fruition.
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Does he still sell many plans?
 
Sam Devlin is the powerboat designer that is in a different league to other's.
all built in plywood using stitch and glue, even the 48' trawler!

Half way down the page look at: moon river, pyladian and Sockeye and Topknot...totally gorgeous!

http://www.devlinboat.com/index.php
 
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IMO home builders go about it the wrong way: they spend years building their boats and fitting out the interior inside a shed at vast expense. The obvious solution is to get on the water as soon as possible.

get the hull professionally built: 6 months?£60k
get exterior painted by yard (international industrial 2 pack bridge paint £2500)
truck the shell from holland back to uk to install engine on hard standing.£5k?
or get Dutch yard to drop in engine and limp back home in motorboat mode.£10k

you now have a floating liveaboard to camp in for about £80k......

relax and build the rest at your own pace while using it as a motorboat until you have the means to finish it off as a proper sailing boat........

this is way you get to enjoy boating and building!:)
 
jerrytug said:
Wow, steel J classes, never knew they existed! What were the spars made of, and the standing rigging?
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I not a sailboat person, but as far as I can figure out 3 of the 10 j class were steel.

The sixth J-Class yacht to be built, and the second built on British soil was Velsheda. She was the only J not built as a contender for the America’s Cup. Her owner, WL Stephenson, who previously owned White Heather II, the 23-Metre converted to rate as a J-Class in 1930, had Velsheda built in steel in 1933 at the Camper & Nicholson yard. Velsheda was a great success. In 1935 she was significantly altered, her bow was snubbed around the waterline and her stern improved. The following season she won the King’s Cup at Cowes Week.
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Plus Ranger and Endeavour in 1937?
 
I can't find the link to the guy who rebuilt one of the steel j class while he lived in a caravan on the site. He made wooden templates of the steel sections and then brought them into a steel works where they bent the new steel into the right profile.

took him several years to complete on zero budget; I notice all the rich b'tards claiming all the credit for the rebuilds and forgetting about the little guy who did all the work. Plus ca change.....!
 
rustybarge said:
I can't find the link to the guy who rebuilt one of the steel j class while he lived in a caravan on the site. He made wooden templates of the steel sections and then brought them into a steel works where they bent the new steel into the right profile.

took him several years to complete on zero budget; I notice all the rich b'tards claiming all the credit for the rebuilds and forgetting about the little guy who did all the work. Plus ca change.....!
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However, it was a rough and ready job and Elizabeth Meyer who funded the proper rebuild had to virtually start again. Those Js were not backyard jobs but state of the art in their time
 
Tranona said:
Well the whole Endeavour project is well documented, both the original 1937 build and the Meyor restoration. Read up on it and make up your own mind.
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Elizabeth Meyer bought Endeavour from Calshott and before that she had been languishing in the Medina River.

It was Velsheda that was dug out of the Hamble mud by Terry Brabant in 1984 and cobbled together for 'charter' work around the south coast.

Shamrock remained in commission throughout her life although always struggling to survive until her latest renaissance.

But it's really Elizabeth Meyer who is responsible for the J Class we know today and perhaps the whole classic yacht world of today. She not only restored Endeavour to a standard she had never even been originally, but she formed the J Class Association, made classic yachting the 'must do' sport of the American billionaires and grafted away at establishing a handicap system so they could all play nicely together.

None of the American boats survived as they didn't have to cross the Atlantic to make it to the start line. Therefore their scantlings and construction could be more experimental, but as this often involved the use of many mixed metals, they quickly 'fizzed away' and were worth so much as scrap they were all recycled.

Masts were usually of steel but Velsheda's was of fabricated aluminium (a technique not seen again until the Whitbread 60s in the 1990s!). Rod rigging was common by the 1930s, although the full rig imagined by the aircraft engineers at Sopworths for Shamrock V in the 1930s wasn't built until improvements in materials made it possible during her complete rebuild 70 years later.

Its only the most recent of the J Class 'new builds' that have been in aluminium.
 
Thanks for the correction. The point I was trying to make was that there seems little in common between the Js and more recent backyard steel construction other than the basic material.
 
Tranona said:
Thanks for the correction. The point I was trying to make was that there seems little in common between the Js and more recent backyard steel construction other than the basic material.
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I totally agree; although it is possible to learn basic steel welding in a couple of weeks, and surprisingly enough bad welding is still very strong structurally, Vertical welding and pipe weld well that's a different kettle of fish.

so it would make perfect sense to get your hull fabricated by a professional yard, then you will have something that is at least saleable. The Dutch are sheer genius' at metal work; their work is unsurpassed anywhere in the world. Have a look at a new Lissen or Aquanaut and it's so smooth it looks like GRP; not a ripple in sight.

i believe that they can digitise hand drawn boat plans fairly cheaply nowadays, so if you provide the Dutch yard with a set plans they could profile cut the steel and build any old fashioned design at reasonable cost.

once you've got the hull painted with an engine and floating you're on your way to creating your dream.:)
 
rustybarge said:
once you've got the hull painted with an engine and floating you're on your way to creating your dream.:)
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But still 6000 manhours and £200k of materials (at least) to go before you have a finished boat of the size that started this thread. Given the vast numbers of perfectly acceptable boats available on the secondhand market for immediate use at a fraction of that cost, one would need to be very committed long term to take on such a project.
 
dancrane said:
I asked the question because the Hout Bay 50 seemed to be a versatile design, even adaptable for commercial trading, assuming one can corner the market in something found in the South Pacific, for which Californians will pay a fat mark-up...:rolleyes:

...my point being that a sailboat built as a tool rather than a play-thing, is likely to be tough and practical and good value, rather than just a pretty thing needing lots of maintenance for aesthetic effect.

The idea of a hefty, sturdy hull with a durable, relatively low-aspect rig, is for me a liveaboard dream-yacht, much more so than any plastic race-derived hull and rig. I was vaguely hopeful that the non-yachty style and materials might escape the enormity of cost which more fashionable designs carry.
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I always thought that a boat designed around a hole that would fit either a 1/2 or full sized shipping container would be an interesting idea for island trading.
 
Tranona said:
But still 6000 manhours and £200k of materials (at least) to go before you have a finished boat of the size that started this thread. Given the vast numbers of perfectly acceptable boats available on the secondhand market for immediate use at a fraction of that cost, one would need to be very committed long term to take on such a project.
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Would it be possible to use cheap traditional materials on a big heavy steel sailboat like Canadian pitch pine masts, French maritime pine interiors, industrial offshore paint finishes, galvanised steel rigging, home made steel port lights, reconditioned anchoring windlass and an old salvaged trawler anchor, maybe cork resin decks instead of teak etc etc...

bought in stuff cost lots because companies have to pay wages, rents, rates, insurance; whereas a home builder can fabricate some very expensive stuff like windows in their shed.

I built and launched a 60' by 13' steel barge for £13k including a transit Diesel engine/g'box from Lancing marine(£2,200 ); floating ready to fit out.

you can add expensive options as you and when can afford to during the build.
 
rustybarge said:
Would it be possible to use cheap traditional materials on a big heavy steel sailboat like Canadian pitch pine masts, French maritime pine interiors, industrial offshore paint finishes, galvanised steel rigging, home made steel port lights, reconditioned anchoring windlass and an old salvaged trawler anchor, maybe cork resin decks instead of teak etc etc...

bought in stuff cost lots because companies have to pay wages, rents, rates, insurance; whereas a home builder can fabricate some very expensive stuff like windows in their shed.

I built and launched a 60' by 13' steel barge for £13k including a transit Diesel engine/g'box from Lancing marine(£2,200 ); floating ready to fit out.

you can add expensive options as you and when can afford to during the build.
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Yes, of course you can, but the outcome usually ends up worth even less than doing it properly.

This sort of activity belongs in the past when there was a shortage of affordable boats and the make do and mend approach was common. Things have moved on since then, although there are still dreamers around. still it keeps ebay full of part complete projects and boatyards earn a crust storing unfinished boats!
 
Tranona said:
Yes, of course you can, but the outcome usually ends up worth even less than doing it properly.

This sort of activity belongs in the past when there was a shortage of affordable boats and the make do and mend approach was common. Things have moved on since then, although there are still dreamers around. still it keeps ebay full of part complete projects and boatyards earn a crust storing unfinished boats!
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Unfortunately What you say is true.

......but could you find a boat as beautiful as the Hout Bay 50 for sale anywhere second hand?
 
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