How much does it cost...really!!??

[camartins77]

Hi all

First of all thanks a lot to everyone that replied to my previous posts. They’ve been extremely helpful.
I'm learning as much as possible about sailing, reading a lot, doing some RYA dinghy courses and soon a Competent Crew and Day Skipper Shorebased.I might even skip the CC altogether, to save money, once what I really want is to have my own boat. I'm sort of decided on a Hurley 22 but after reading Ellen McArthur's book, am also interested on the Corribbee 21. Any opinions/advice concerning both of these boats? I'm also undecided between getting a bilge or fin keel version! Opinions???
But the main thing is:
After reading a lot I found that there is an eternal discussion between sailing being extremely expensive or affordable and possible on a budget!!! You
can easily understand by my choice of boat that I don't have a huge budget for the boat, but think that will be possible to have loads of fun sailing anyway. I actually want an seaworthy boat from the word go so that I can venture further offshore as my experience develops, hence asking if a Hurley or a Corribbee will get me across the Channel or even to the Azores! It has been done before apparently! I just think that if I'm gonna wait to have money for a Contessa 32 or Rival 32 plus all the equipment needed I might as well never sail!!!
So my question is: Can it be done on a budget? I appear to have found a sailing club that only asks for £150 yearly membership and gets you a mooring for about £100 not far from Chichester!!! If that's all I have to pay to have my Hurley 22 and enjoy sailing it's really good!!! I spend more than that on loads of silly stuff and definitely don't get as much satisfaction!!! Of course there's the yearly anti-fouling, buying this or that, maintenance, port fees while away (around the Solent being the more expensive right?) on top of that. But how much do you think having and maintaining a boat like a Hurley 22 or a Corribbee 21 will cost a year? Will it be £1.5k or more like £7k+?
Sorry about all this questions but I'm a keen learner and I'm never scared to ask before doing something wrong!
Thanks a lot
CA Martins


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[Twister_Ken]

It's unlikely you'll find a boat which is entirely equipped to a standard which satisfies you. So in the first year or two of ownership you should count on needing to spend some money on equipment, from little things like renewing a battery or changing rigging, to more major purchases like a new anchor and chain, or sails, or a cooker, or a radio or GPS.

If you're keeping her on a £100 mooring odds are you'll need a solid little tender and outboard to get to and fro. Count around £500 s/hand. Similarly you'll need a little inflatable aboard for use when cruising. if you are lucky this will be in the inventory. If not, maybe £200 used.

Annually, you'll probbaly want to take the boat out of the water and store it ashore for some time every winter. It sounds as if you may have found a sailing club that does things like this on a DIY basis, in which case this would be relatively cheap. If you need to go to a commercial yard, something like £250 -£500 for lift out, storage, lift in.

During the winter and spring you can count on spending somewhere between £100 and £200 on paint, varnish, polish, antifouling, etc.

You will need insurance - depending on your boat's value, your cruising area, your excess, etc, this might be between £100- £400 per annum.

Almost every night you spend moored, at anchor or in a marina and not at your own mooring will cost you money - in your size of boat perhaps £5 - 15 a night.

I suspect you'll have an outboard rather than an inboard., so you'll be buying expensive petrol at somewhere between £.85 and £1 per litre unless you bring it aboard in a can from a a roadside garage. Your engine will need at least an annual service. £100 maybe.

Flares need to be renewed every three years from £50 for a basic inshore pack to £150 for an offshore pack.

You'll need to buy personal gear like clothing - a full three-layer system if you are starting from scratch might set you back somewhere between £350 and £500 per person. Add in a life jacket/harness at between £60 and £120, and a decent sleeping bag.

Charts, pilot books, etc - say £100 in year one and then incremental spend in following years.

I'm sure others will think of other expenses.

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[Ohdrat]

the above is pretty much what I'm working too in terms of running costs as I am also in the buying pains of boatownership..

I am going to keep a seperate current account for the boat and boaty stuff .. with a standing order out of my living current account.. this is an effort to monitor budget and running costs effectively.

It is worth remembering that a well known type of boat will sell relatively easily particularly if you have carried out the anual maintenance stuff and if possible upgraded / renewed equipement.

Re Corribee ... I think Ellen still has her Corribee.. I think the Corribee will be faster than the Hurley..

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[M_Russell]

I asked more or less the same question in Febuary. I've had my Moody 29 for about two months now. It is quite breathtaking the rate at which money left my account during this period, frankly I stopped worrying about it (until I ran out). As twisted_ken has mentioned, whatever the boat costs you can reckon on hundreds (even thousands) on top of that to get yourself fully kitted out.

Mindyou I don't entirely agree that every night your in your boat will cost. Achoring in Newtown creek didn't cost a penny the other weekend (or is that only because I left early?).

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[Sybarite]

There used to be a rule of thumb that the annual cost of a boat was 10% of its initial cost. I have found that to be more or less true over the years. The big cost though is the mooring charge and you seem to have a good deal where you are. However see if you can examine the ground tackle at some time. (Dive ?)

You will have plenty to explore locally before you need to cross oceans and by then you will be able to make informed judgements for yourself. Sailing around a coast I believe requires a higher degree of seamanship (and is usually more interesting) than long crossings. The essential difference is that if you misjudge the weather offshore you will have to feel confident in your boat. The smaller the boat the larger the waves will appear and you must start your heavy weather measures earlier. There is also another rule of thumb that says the enjoyment of a boat is in inverse proportion to its size. I cut my teeth on a 17' Leander. It probably got more use than all the rest of the boats in the bay together!

I don't believe you need to spend a lot on equipment though don't hold back on safety items. There are plenty of lists elsewhere. Get good quality clothing as this is a safety matter too. Being cold and wet saps energy and morale. Get up to date charts of the areas you sail. Carry two anchors with different holding characteristics - this is your ultimate last chance.

As far as instruments are concerned you need a log, a depth sounder, a compass a bearing compass, a VHF and a GPS. I have used a hand-held for several years now (two in fact for back-up on longer crossings) and they are perfectly adequate. You don't need wind instruments - they are expensive and when the boat heels too much you will know it is time to reef. With a Corribee (I tried to convince my Dad to buy one when they first came out - lovely shape) / Hurley you ought to able to get quite close to shore and so, do you really need an outboard for the dinghy. Choose your dinghy for its rowability.

Keels : unless you have a drying mooring or sail in particularly shallow waters I would personnally go for a fin keel for its better sailing characteristics. I have never seen the attraction of drying out for the fun of it. Apart from being stuck there for a certain number of hours, say you are about to dry out and the wind comes up. How many times will the boat bounce on the bottom before it settles? If it is calm and does it nicely what is the weather going to be like when the tide comes back in? What if an unannounced gale is blowing?

A furling headsail is a great comfort but on a 22' boat you don't really need it and the boat sails better with a normal hanked sail. Have a storm jib and see that you can reef your mainsail right down adding additional reefing points if necessary. In heavy weather it is often a safety feature to be able to continue to power your way out of danger.

When you are properly prepared it is the best sport and pass time in the world. Enjoy it.

John


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[nordic_ranger]

Think of the word BOAT and take the initials they read Break Out Another Thousand

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[Paragon]

As a Hurley 22 owner, I cannot praise it enough. As far as costs go, if you want the flashiest, shiniest Hurley in the harbour then expect to pay. If you want a good safe sailing boat that has all the basic safety features/equipment for the type of sailing you are likely to do initially then I would suggest that the previously quoted figure of about 10%pa would be a good yard stick. I like spending money on boaty things, I hate spending money on boring things like council tax and haircuts!

I guess in reality I, like many others, will fork out for bits for the boat without SHMBO knowing anything about it. I take it as fair game as various items of clothing appear that I dont recall seeing before!

Anyway, good luck with your search, I would add that it will probably be cheaper in the long run to get a better boat initially than buy a project that needs money spent.


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[Rob_Webb]

10% = good benchmark.

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[jeanne]

Both the Hurley and the Corribee are good little seaboats and could do the distance- if you are young and agile enough! We met two Corribees over the pond. The only thing I would mention about the Corribee is that it is a very wet boat i.e. it can be a little like a submarine in a steep sea! I have sailed in both and for small production boats either would give you a good feeling as being really designed for sea. So you have made a sensible choice. As far as bilge v fin keels, I have never believed the old adage that fin is better than bilge; bilge does give you more options if there are places you can dry out where fins can't get in and it can save money on fitting out if you can do your antifouling etc on the hoof so to speak.

As for costs, 10% to include everything is about right. Good luck, just get out there and do it - you'll love it!

Best wishes
Jeanne

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[dickh]

As well as the Coribee & Hurley you should also consider a Halcyon 23 - the fin keel version sails well, we went all over the Thames Estuary and across to France & Belgium - never gave us a minutes doubt as to her seaworthiness - an excellent first boat. There is a bilge keel version and an earlier triple keel version calle the Crystal.
I would personally go for the fin keel as they are usually much better to windward -(but bilge keels/lifting keels can sneak up small creeks and sit on the mud for overnight free mooring) but this will depend on your home mooring, it sounds like a good deal but if it is a drying mooring you will be limited to bilge keel or lift keel.
If you are prepared to do the work your self, you will be able to pick up a bargain BUT if it needs a lot of work, get it taken to your back garden or very close nearby. This way you will always be able to do little jobs quickly, have electric for tools, lighting, heating etc; - and make a canopy over the whole hull and you'll be able to work inside over winter. Do not underestimate the time involved - it will ALWAYS take at least twice as long as you think it will. Witness the number of abandoned projects in boatyards(which you can often pick up cheap).
Regarding equiping your boat, you may be lucky and get one full equiped, but if not, consider second hand items, either from this forum, eBay, local clubs and the Yellow freeads paper. You can save a lot of money this way.
Good Luck.

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I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Sniper]

As far as choice of boat goes, you should also consider the Pandora. similar size to the Corribee and Hurley 22 - pretty good sailing performance and available in bilge or fin keel versions. They come on the market at around £1,500 upwards, so you should find something to suit. We had a bilge keel Pandora for years and it was a great little boat. However, any small bilge keeler will suffer to windward so unless you need to dry out on your permanent mooring ( probable, by the sound of it) I'd go for fin keel.

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[Gordonmc]

I started with a Hurley 22 and in retrospect it was the best choice I could have made. It was the earlier, split window version and in reasonable nick. In the three years I had the boat the biggest cost was marina berthing, but this was a considered expense as the sprog was just turned seven years and I didn't want the hassle of rowing out to a mooring and scaring the pants off her and her mum.
Leaving that aside, the costs were kept under strict control.
If you can work out how much disposable income you can devote to the boat and tailor purchasing to that.
On a Hurley the cost of varnish and paint is negligable... there ain't that much to paint. Antifouling is the exception and one 2.5 litre tin will do two coats on a long keel H22. Call it £35.
Buy wisely and you will inherit lifejackets, tender, harnesses and most other kit. Secondhand maybe, but perfectly serviceable.
The moral is that if you let costs run away, they will.
After my three years the only major expense was roller reefing... hardly an essential.
I sold the boat for £1k more than I bought her for.

Enjoy!

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[yoda]

What it costs and what you end up spending are very different things! Yes you can boat on a budget and my £100 a month would keep my 30 ft boat going for the year but I always end up spending more. You appear to have found a good set up and chosen a good boat (which ever one you go for) so don't be afraid and take the plunge. I run a seperate bank account for the boat which ensures I have the money when required for the important bills and aids financial discipline. Worth considering.

Yoda

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[jac]

One thing to bear in mind in year one is the costs on top of the purchase price. I.e if she's in a yard and you buy her you'll end up paying storage costs until you get her launched and back to your mooring. could be £150-£200 pm.

ALso when buying - don't rush in. A knowledgable friend who can view the boats with you might be the best bet at first. IF He/She thinks its a good one get the surveyor in - budget £250-£350. They should pick out most defects but be aware that faults can develop despite a clean bill of health from the surveyor. Trust me - I have an estimate of £2k worth of work to prove it and the survey only a year old.

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