How long is it safe to leave an engine unused and unattended

[PaulRainbow]

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I would get him to flush through the cooling system and either drain it or put some corrosion-inhibitor in it, change the oil and the filter (using preservative oil, if you can get it) turn the engine over after introducing some oil into the cylinders, spray the exterior with some anti-corrosion oil, cover the engine and then leave it alone. Also disconnect the battery and fetch it home so you can keep it charged.

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Why on Earth would you do any of that ?

The OPs engine is fresh water cooled, so already full of corrosion inhibitor (in the anti-freeze). The rest is simply pointless too.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Perhaps ideally you'd 'winterise' the engine. particularly removing the exhaust, so that damp is not rising from the water lock and condensing on the valves and any cylinder where the exhaust valve is open. That used to be the traditional advice and it's what I do.

Second best might be to spin it over decompressed to re-oil the cylinder walls every week or so.

What's going to cause the sea water in the water lock (if the OPs boat even has a water lock) to evaporate ?

How do you decompress a Perkins 4.108 ?

 

[Jim@sea]

Like many I cannot get to my boat either to use it, or just run the engine up. Assuming that lock down is going to go on, how long is it safe to leave the engine/boat unattended; the engine is a c1980 Perkins 4108 and the boat a similar vintage yacht. I have had an offer from a mechanic who is prepared to run the engine up, wash the boat and check it over, for which he is asking £300 for 6 visits. Now that goes against my thinking, but am I likely to end up with a bigger bill if I just leave it to sit?

Any thoughts?

I bought a MF tractor with one of these perkins engines in it. it had been stood for 6 years and started second turn of the key.
If you are going to spend £300 why not wait until you want to use the boat and have the injectors removed for cleaning, (professionally) and fit new glow plugs, have the diesel tank drained and cleaned and new fuel filters. Money better spent.

 

[Poignard]

Why on Earth would you do any of that ?

The OPs engine is fresh water cooled, so already full of corrosion inhibitor (in the anti-freeze). The rest is simply pointless too.

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Ah well, that's easily explained.

Many years ago, when I was a certificated marine engineer, I owned a 1935 3-1/2 litre Bentley and amongst the paper work that came with it when I bought it was a typed sheet of recommendations for laying up cars during the war that the engineers at the Bentley works in Derby, had produced.

As I often had to go away to sea for long periods, I used to lay-up the car up following the Bentley engineers' recommendations.

I assumed they knew what they were talking about but you obviously hold a different opinion; which you are , of course, perfectly entitled to do

The thing is, with this Covid pandemic, one has no idea how long we may be unable to visit our boats so it seems to me to be a good idea, if one can, to lay-up the engine on the assumption that it might be a a very long period.

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[lw395]

What's going to cause the sea water in the water lock (if the OPs boat even has a water lock) to evaporate ?

How do you decompress a Perkins 4.108 ?

I take it these engines don't have decompressors.
When you say 'what causes sea water to evaporate' how deep an answer would you like?
Are you unfamiliar with the concept that if you keep some water in a container with air above it, some will evaporate?

 

[CalicoJack]

Thanks for all the advice. I am an hours drive, even with the quieter roads, from the marina, not that they would let me in anyway. I will keep my money in my pocket for now and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[MrB18]

My boat spends October to the following May out of the water without the engine being run. Usually starts on the button before relaunching.

Having had the wonderful Perkins 4108 for some 30 years, was quite old when I inherited it, they are for me, always provided of course that regular oil changes and filter changes for both fuel and oil, air intake cleaned etc they are virtually indestructible.
Do not worry she will not come to any harm for the next few months, and will i believe be ready to start when you press the tit.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I take it these engines don't have decompressors.

That's correct.

When you say 'what causes sea water to evaporate' how deep an answer would you like?
Are you unfamiliar with the concept that if you keep some water in a container with air above it, some will evaporate?

I really don't think that sea water evaporating in the exhaust and then condensing on the engine internals is going to be an issue.

 

[lw395]

I really don't think that sea water evaporating in the exhaust and then condensing on the engine internals is going to be an issue.

Last century, all the books used to recommend disconnecting the exhaust hose and keeping the manifold dry.
The winter I looked for my first boat, 9 out of 10 were 'winterised' in this way.
I wonder whether it's been debunked or just dropped out of the yearly PBO article?

Maybe the cylinder walls stay oily now we all use sythetic oil

The water which condenses on the engine bits is of course fresh.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Last century, all the books used to recommend disconnecting the exhaust hose and keeping the manifold dry.
The winter I looked for my first boat, 9 out of 10 were 'winterised' in this way.
I wonder whether it's been debunked or just dropped out of the yearly PBO article?

Maybe the cylinder walls stay oily now we all use sythetic oil

The water which condenses on the engine bits is of course fresh.

I think there are lots of cases where things get recommended by someone, or a magazine article and that takes on a whole life of its own. Then, we realise it's not necessary. Other factors sometimes have a part to play, materials improve etc. Lots of things we used to do, but don't do now. Equally, lots of things we do now that we never did. When did we start replacing antifreeze and brake fluid every two years ?

Of course, manufacturers will sometimes invent new things for us to spend out money on. Volvo tell us to change water pump impellers every year, yet the same impeller, in the same pump, but fitted to a Yanmar engine only needs changing every 5 years.

 

[escapism]

Last century, all the books used to recommend disconnecting the exhaust hose and keeping the manifold dry.
The winter I looked for my first boat, 9 out of 10 were 'winterised' in this way.
I wonder whether it's been debunked or just dropped out of the yearly PBO article?

Maybe the cylinder walls stay oily now we all use sythetic oil

The water which condenses on the engine bits is of course fresh.

Worried now. Winterising a raw water cooled Yanmar is not a complicated process according to the manual, but no mention of disconnecting the exhaust hose. I can totally see why its a good idea, especially as a waterlock has been added some 20 years after the manual was written. And errm. . . some of us are still on straight SAE30 oil as per spec rather than synthetics.

 

[PaulRainbow]

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Ah well, that's easily explained.

Many years ago, when I was a certificated marine engineer, I owned a 1935 3-1/2 litre Bentley and amongst the paper work that came with it when I bought it was a typed sheet of recommendations for laying up cars during the war that the engineers at the Bentley works in Derby, had produced.

As I often had to go away to sea for long periods, I used to lay-up the car up following the Bentley engineers' recommendations.

I assumed they knew what they were talking about but you obviously hold a different opinion; which you are , of course, perfectly entitled to do

The thing is, with this Covid pandemic, one has no idea how long we may be unable to visit our boats so it seems to me to be a good idea, if one can, to lay-up the engine on the assumption that it might be a a very long period.

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Times do change, as do materials and we learn new practices. With our modern diesels and modern oils, there honestly isn't any need for all of the measures that were needed in 1935. But, don't let me stop you doing them if you're bored ?

 

[Poignard]

Times do change, as do materials and we learn new practices. With our modern diesels and modern oils, there honestly isn't any need for all of the measures that were needed in 1935. But, don't let me stop you doing them if you're bored ?

Has water changed its ability to corrode steel?

Perhaps you are one of those marine engineers who is happy to counsel their customers to forego some simple and inexpensive measures to prolong the life of their engines in the expectation that by doing so they will soon be spending thousands of pounds buying replacements.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Has water changed its ability to corrode steel?

Perhaps you are one of those marine engineers who is happy to counsel their customers to forego some simple and inexpensive measures to prolong the life of their engines in the expectation that by doing so they will soon be spending thousands of pounds buying replacements.

How rude.

I don't sell engines and i don't fit engines so i would earn nothing from advising my customers to forego anything. On the other hand, i could advise them to waste their money on harebrained winterising techniques from the 1930s, but i prefer to look after my customers, maybe that's why they keep coming back.

What sort of imbecile marine engineer would tell his customers they needed to pay him to "change the oil and the filter (using preservative oil, if you can get it) turn the engine over after introducing some oil into the cylinders, spray the exterior with some anti-corrosion oil, "

There are times, and this is certainly one of them, when i despair and wonder why on Earth i spend some of my free time sharing some of my knowledge on here (it's almost 10:00PM and iv'e spent the last 2 hours answering posts, PMs and emails), completely free of charge, only to read such slanderous drivel.

 

[Poignard]

How rude.

I don't sell engines and i don't fit engines so i would earn nothing from advising my customers to forego anything. On the other hand, i could advise them to waste their money on harebrained winterising techniques from the 1930s, but i prefer to look after my customers, maybe that's why they keep coming back.

What sort of imbecile marine engineer would tell his customers they needed to pay him to "change the oil and the filter (using preservative oil, if you can get it) turn the engine over after introducing some oil into the cylinders, spray the exterior with some anti-corrosion oil, "

There are times, and this is certainly one of them, when i despair and wonder why on Earth i spend some of my free time sharing some of my knowledge on here (it's almost 10:00PM and iv'e spent the last 2 hours answering posts, PMs and emails), completely free of charge, only to read such slanderous drivel.

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While you have been whipping yourself into a frenzy of outrage I have had a look at some of the recommendations by engine manufacturers on long-term storage of engines . All have procedures similar to those I suggested. The workshop manual for my own yacht's engine has similar recommendations. I can reproduce it if you like.

So, if it's all the same to you, I'd prefer to follow the guidance of engineers who design and manufacture engines rather than yours.

You may, of course, know better than they.

But it is impossible to know whether you do or not since your website gives no information at all about your qualifications and so, unless you are unusually modest, and your posts certainly do not give that impression, it seems not unreasonable to assume you have none worth drawing potential customers' attention to. In fact your reticence even extends to not having an email address or even a business address where they might call in order to satisfy themselves that you have a properly equipped workshop!

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[doug748]

I have a , lets call it a 'project', parked down the side of my house. I took it off the road in 2001. As I happen to have a bit of time on my hands at the moment, I had a little tinker with it the other day. After a few basic checks and precautions, it started 2nd attempt, and sounds sweet, after 19 years. I don't think a few weeks, or even a few months, will have any detrimental effects.

Yep, good stuff.

I bought a project Triumph motorbike a few years ago, the carbs were thick with gunge. The hydraulic fluid in the brake pipes had turned to solid grit. I guess it was at least 25 years since it last ran. I put a pint of fuel in the tank to check for leaks.
Next day I kicked it over to see if if was pumping oil, it started.

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[PaulRainbow]

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[PaulRainbow]

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While you have been whipping yourself into a frenzy of outrage I have had a look at some of the recommendations by engine manufacturers on long-term storage of engines . All have procedures similar to those I suggested. The workshop manual for my own yacht's engine has similar recommendations. I can reproduce it if you like.

So, if it's all the same to you, I'd prefer to follow the guidance of engineers who design and manufacture engines rather than yours.

You may, of course, know better than they.

But it is impossible to know whether you do or not since your website gives no information at all about your qualifications and so, unless you are unusually modest, and your posts certainly do not give that impression, it seems not unreasonable to assume you have none worth drawing potential customers' attention to. In fact your reticence even extends to not having an email address or even a business address where they might call in order to satisfy themselves that you have a properly equipped workshop!

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Is that the best you can do to defend your ludicrous assertions ?

There isn't an email address on my website ?

Of course there isn't, if there was it'd be on every SPAM list in the World.

There is a contact form and a telephone number. There are countless forum members who have met me or are customers. As opposed to some random, ranty, bloke on the internet quoting 1935 Bentley recommendations. Who are you ?

Why do i need a "properly equipped workshop" to carry out servicing and electrical repairs on boats ?

 

[rotrax]

How rude.

I don't sell engines and i don't fit engines so i would earn nothing from advising my customers to forego anything. On the other hand, i could advise them to waste their money on harebrained winterising techniques from the 1930s, but i prefer to look after my customers, maybe that's why they keep coming back.

What sort of imbecile marine engineer would tell his customers they needed to pay him to "change the oil and the filter (using preservative oil, if you can get it) turn the engine over after introducing some oil into the cylinders, spray the exterior with some anti-corrosion oil, "

There are times, and this is certainly one of them, when i despair and wonder why on Earth i spend some of my free time sharing some of my knowledge on here (it's almost 10:00PM and iv'e spent the last 2 hours answering posts, PMs and emails), completely free of charge, only to read such slanderous drivel.

Quite right PaulRainbow. I leave my two cars for close to six months every year while in NZ. They both fire up quickly when I have tickled the batteries on the charger. Both boat engines too.

Both my boats are dry internally, little or no external corrosion on the engine externals. I crank enough to get the oil moving around the bearings and then start them at modest throttle opening. I have NEVER winterised any of my boats, motorcycles or cars, but often drained the carbs on my motorcycles to avoid gumming up.

I once pulled a 1934 Norton ES2 from a Shropshire hedgerow where the Farmer had put it in 1954 to block a gap where his cattle were getting out. My mate got it free as long as he blocked the hedge after we got it out. It had been there 30 years.

Had it going in three hours, still going in Essex today. And that had the carb open to the atmosphere, no air filter, just a stubby bellmouth.

For owners like Poignard, you will do no harm by winterising. But in the real world, not really necessary for 6 months or so.

As one of my favorite quote says :- " True knowledge is the product of direct experience. "

Unless Poignard has omitted to winterise and has suffered consequenses, his knowledge is no different to ours.

That why they make plain chocolate and milk chocolate...............................

 

[Tomaret]

There are times, and this is certainly one of them, when i despair and wonder why on Earth i spend some of my free time sharing some of my knowledge on here (it's almost 10:00PM and iv'e spent the last 2 hours answering posts, PMs and emails), completely free of charge, only to read such slanderous drivel.

Put like that it’s a difficult question to answer, but I, for one, appreciate that you do.