westernman
Well-Known Member
Every petrol head knows you can drive without a pee for far longer than a battery EV can keep driving........
how can Colregs rule 5 - lookout - be met by solo sailors on long trips?
- Thread starter Wjj
- Start date
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Leisure sailing (including singlehanded races) involves a level of trust that those afloat behave competently and responsibly but without demanding conformance to the sort of rigour that covers driving or flying. The Colregs provide the framework for you to follow.
There is no defence for not following Colregs in crowded waters or shipping lanes. In empty waters, I do go for a pee and make coffee and take an occassional nap. I avoid night sailing, but often start in the dark. I am toddling along at 4-6 knts with time to assess and act.
When offshore, the idea of something coming at me in the dark at 30 knts and unmanned is scary. But equally so are the powerboats and jetskis out on a sunny weekend. AIS and radar do little to help with the latter.
It all sort of works because the sea is so vast and relatively empty - a bit like space debris. I for one hope leisure sailing can remain unregulated and a place of common sense and respect rather than rules and regulation.
There is no defence for not following Colregs in crowded waters or shipping lanes. In empty waters, I do go for a pee and make coffee and take an occassional nap. I avoid night sailing, but often start in the dark. I am toddling along at 4-6 knts with time to assess and act.
When offshore, the idea of something coming at me in the dark at 30 knts and unmanned is scary. But equally so are the powerboats and jetskis out on a sunny weekend. AIS and radar do little to help with the latter.
It all sort of works because the sea is so vast and relatively empty - a bit like space debris. I for one hope leisure sailing can remain unregulated and a place of common sense and respect rather than rules and regulation.
Last edited:
dansaskip
Well-Known Member
The above line written in the regs does allow for a degree of leeway. If for example you are not in a shipping lane or are in an area with no other boats there is a certain freedom for a mariner to use his own judgment regarding keeping a lookout. These days with AIS and radar and setting guard alarms we have an easier task perhaps than seafarers of earlier generations.
ducked
Well-Known Member
That’d be a non-pissing contest, different, yet not entirely unfamiliar
penberth3
Well-Known Member
If it goes wrong there's only going to be one death. So the regulators can ignore it.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Well, often yes, but I think if Medallia had hit an open fishing when Pip Hare overslept they might have been killed:
Pip Hare's Medallia runs aground off Cornwall - Practical Boat Owner
Of course with parties would have to be breaking rule 5 for that to happen.
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
A fishing boat hauling pots or trawling is not able to manouver readily. They can satisfy rule 5 but then rely on VHF or a sound signal (which might or might not have woken Pip...).
jamie N
Well-Known Member
I was thinking this issue through the other day. My planned trip is to go to the Faeroes this year, via Stromness from Inverness, and then back down to Stornoway. On Marine Traffic now, there's maybe 20 boats showing in the area that I'd be sailing in.
Now think of 20 blind & deaf people in the area from Largs to Edinburgh to Wick and Cape Wrath, which is similar to the above area, stumbling about at walking pace, some maybe even a bit quicker than that, entirely unaware of the others presence, what are the odds of them bumping into each other?
To change the odds, how about if half of them weren't blind or deaf, and were actually looking out for someone else, would they surprise each other?
Now think of 20 blind & deaf people in the area from Largs to Edinburgh to Wick and Cape Wrath, which is similar to the above area, stumbling about at walking pace, some maybe even a bit quicker than that, entirely unaware of the others presence, what are the odds of them bumping into each other?
To change the odds, how about if half of them weren't blind or deaf, and were actually looking out for someone else, would they surprise each other?
Last edited:
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
I'm always amazed how, in the middle of nowhere, some fishing boat or cargo ship manages to end up getting surprisingly close. Although as you say, hardly within touching distance.
An exciting trip you plan. Do tell the story in due course.
westernman
Well-Known Member
I had a quick look and also compared that to Port Roses to Minorca (a trip we have done) which to my surprise looked pretty empty as well.
During our last trip to Minorca, which took about 30 hours during high season, we saw at night three other sailing boats heading in a parallel direction to us about 1/2 mile away. One of which had no lights on. We also saw a very long way away a cruise ship which was extremely visible all lit up.
During the day time we saw another cruise ship a long way away, and had a "close" situation with one coaster type cargo ship which could have resulted in a collision if nobody had done anything. The cargo ship changed course slightly to avoid us and passed may be a 1/4 mile in front of us. The driver waved to us from the bridge. We saw it a long long way off, so we had plenty of time to get stressed about it, but in the end, as stand on vessel, we did nothing at all.
We did have a permanent look out, but I am not sure of the reliability of some of the crew who took it in turns to look out.
Every time we have done this trip, we have had excellent visibility - both day and night.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
I think my insurance has no more than 24 hours but does not specify the length of break you must take. I wouldnt want to do much more than 12 or 14 hours singlehanded anyway.
ylop
Well-Known Member
No they are the law not a framework.
It’s not unregulated - if you survive a collision and were not keeping a lookout you can full expect the MCA Enforcement Team to try and make an example of you.
How does it change your odds if I chuck a couple of cargo vessels doing 3-5x the speed with the watch keeper half asleep and a couple of fishing boats zig zagging around much more interested in the catch than the collision risk.
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
I understand that - it is a (legal) framework like the highway code that informs how users should behave.
I do not actively ignore the Colregs but I do sail singlehanded which almost by definition contravenes Rule 5 at times.
I appreciate the apparent risk I take of prosecution but follow the principle of staying as safe as I can.
It might be useful if you share any incidents where singlehanded yachtsmen have been prosecuted for contravention of Colregs. There must be many given all the various incidents in recent years.
Buck Turgidson
Well-Known Member
Leslie frank
Well-Known Member
I agree with post 2, but ....
I once spoke to a guy who reckoned that if you hove-to on starboard tack then you could happily get your head down as everybody had to give way to you. He also had a gadget which flagged up the pings of other people's radar and showed which direction they were coming from.
It was quite nifty in a pre AIS world
I once spoke to a guy who reckoned that if you hove-to on starboard tack then you could happily get your head down as everybody had to give way to you. He also had a gadget which flagged up the pings of other people's radar and showed which direction they were coming from.
It was quite nifty in a pre AIS world
It was once required for Mini650 boats, maybe still isylop
Well-Known Member
No the highway code is a "code" which has some special status in law but most of it is not actually law. You could consider it guidelines which might establish what a careful and competent driver would do. The Col Regs are not just guidelines they are enacted directly into UK Law (The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1989).
Not single handed but proof they will prosecute leisure skippers:
- Prosecutions report 2024
- Prosecutions report 2023
- Moment speedboat skipper hit teenage kayaker and ran him over
And for single handed not keeping a lookout:
- https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7dc27fe5274a5eaea662a9/mca_prosecutions_2012.pdf
- https://www.pbo.co.uk/news/skipper-fined-after-failing-to-keep-a-look-out-519
Obviously, if you don't survive the collision, you won't be prosecuted.
westernman
Well-Known Member
The company was created in 1998 and it looks like the design (and the web-site) date from back then.
The company still seems to be in existence and does about 20K euros in business each year. The director and only employee is 80 years old.
You can order the box from the usual chandlers (Bigship, Acastillage Diffusion, etc).
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Put me down as another request a trip report on that - with photos!
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I hope I do a better job than these.
And can continue to enjoy singlehanded sailing until it is legislated against.