Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
+1. Almost certainly luff rope in a twin groove foil.
Hot Liquid: the response
- Thread starter Koeketiene
- Start date
+1. Almost certainly luff rope in a twin groove foil.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Do these twin grove foils not twist with the sail?
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Do not know if hanked on with this boat, I know when I did a day skippers course ten years ago they used hanked on sails because they said it was good to learn how to do it. Not used one since
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Don't quite understand the question. If fitted with a roller, yes they roll inside the sail. If not fitted with a roller, they rotate slightly on the forestay to align with the angle of attack of the foresail. They shouldn't 'twist' unless something has gone totally titzup.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
If you let the sheets fly and the sail streamed downwind the foil would rotate and the luff groove would be downwind anyway, no different to having head to wind and the sail streaming back over the foredeck.
However........ I have tried to haul our genoa down with it flapping, head into about 25 knots and all it got me was a bit of slack in the halyard and some painfully folded ( you know the type, 2-3mm below the point where the nail separates from the underlying skin ) and ripped fingernails. At that point the jam in the furling gear cleared and the problem went away.
The drag on 10's of square metres of headsail in anything over a stiff breeze overcomes most efforts to slide it down the track. In a F9 or more I'll bet the clew of the sail, even without a shackle could cause a fatal injury! Remember too that when you are cold, wet and pumped full of adrenaline everything takes on a much different aspect. A £1000 headsail against the chance of someone falling in? ..... No contest!
However........ I have tried to haul our genoa down with it flapping, head into about 25 knots and all it got me was a bit of slack in the halyard and some painfully folded ( you know the type, 2-3mm below the point where the nail separates from the underlying skin ) and ripped fingernails. At that point the jam in the furling gear cleared and the problem went away.
The drag on 10's of square metres of headsail in anything over a stiff breeze overcomes most efforts to slide it down the track. In a F9 or more I'll bet the clew of the sail, even without a shackle could cause a fatal injury! Remember too that when you are cold, wet and pumped full of adrenaline everything takes on a much different aspect. A £1000 headsail against the chance of someone falling in? ..... No contest!
Searush
Well-Known Member
Probably, but can you overcome the luff/ foil friction with 60kts of wind across it? Just imagine the way it would be thrashing about . . . I don't know, but it does seem a logical explanation for needing a knife to cut it away.
Any headfoil users out there tried changing sails rather later than they should have done? Edit; Thanks Nimbus, that's pretty much what I was imagining.
Talulah
Well-Known Member
Again I could be wrong but I thought it had hanked on sails for their racing setup. I have no proof of this. Just speculation.
Image here:
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Liquid Vortex_Report.pdf
Don't see a foil but there again there could be.
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Talulah
Well-Known Member
I've also been unable to drop a headsail where one of the grub screws in the foil has protruded (worked it's way out) preventing the swivel from getting lowered all the way.
Pete R
Well-Known Member
I cannot see one on the rescue video either and didn't the skipper tweet about having the No3 headsail on?
Pete R
Well-Known Member
If it was a halyard jam you would nead a bloody long knife to cut the sail away.
But once dropped I would imagine it was just too bloody difficult to handle and you probably would not want to open the front hatch to get it down below anyway.
Talulah
Well-Known Member
If it was a halyard jam you would nead a bloody long knife to cut the sail away.
But once dropped I would imagine it was just too bloody difficult to handle and you probably would not want to open the front hatch to get it down below anyway.
I wonder if it was cut away because shackles couldn't be undone on the tack or head.
Need more info from the crew.
Pete R
Well-Known Member
That's the only reason I can think of. Although in the conditions cutting must have been bloody difficult as well.
The final report will be quite interesting to read.
The final report will be quite interesting to read.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Sorry - my carelessly worded question ...
With a furler the foils rotate and wrap up the sail ...
Without a furler they only rotate slighty? So downwind the sail would be at a significant angle to the foil ? It doesn't matter really only curious as I've got a furler so I can (in theory) drop the sail no matter what the wind angle ..
mjcoon
Well-Known Member
I recommend some light gardening (maybe even driving) gloves to protect the sensitive bits. I managed to get cut under the fingernail by the folded-over edge of a mainsail when tidying it up before I took to such gloves...
Mike.
mikegunn
Well-Known Member
That's recently happened to me too. Fortunately it occurred in the safety of marina when I was removing sails for winter inspection. My next job is to refit all screws with Loctite before refitting sails.
I have had the furling gear jam on me due to over-riding turns of furling line on drum, leaving no alternative but to drop the sail. If that had happened after the screw had worked loose I would have had no option but to let the clew fly.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Yes. Can't remember it being too hard because the new one goes up first to leeward which stops the old one flogging and guides it down onto the side deck. Done it a gale, but never a storm. And that boat was bigger enough for couple of us staff to be working at the pointy end.
Trying to do it bareheaded would be rather more fraught.
jimi
Well-Known Member
I've done it the opposite way when changing down, put the new and smaller up inside the old on a different jib sheet which makes it a lot easier to feed the luff and raise. Once its drawing the old can be dropped using the new as shelter.
Re jammed furler I've had that on a charter boat in the meltemi in Turkey, I motored round doing 360s until it was mainly furled
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
That works too. It's bareheaded that's a pig, in a blow.
mikegunn
Well-Known Member
Re; Jammed furler. Thanks for the tip. Wish I'd thought of that!
Boomshanka
Well-Known Member
+ another... this is a great example of what this forum (and dare I say it, discussing this case) is all about... I've put that solution in the old black box should I ever face the same problem