Hot Liquid: the response

Daedelus said:
Damn!

I like the Russian version better. Especially the translation of (I think) Dungeness. Just think how much richer Yachting Monthly would be with a google style translation from Russian.
This has got to be a marketing opportunity.
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In future when I play the _Hunt For Red Okober_ theme when leaving harbour, I'll give the order:
"Engage the Shilent Drive - tonight we shail for Dandzheness!" ;-)

(makes a nice change from Puerto Solento, Ille de Blanc, Vaches, Port Nouveau, Port du Emouchure, etc.)
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Always amuses me how judgemental posters are when something like this happens. Never before realised how many sailing gods there are out there. But I wonder if the skipper being pilloried here ever joined in previous post accident feeding frenzies on YBW. For that matter, I wonder how many of the self righteous on here will end up also in the newspaper reports.

As far as I'm concerned, there but for the grace of God ........................
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+1.

I've never set out in a 10, but the best 'big boat' sail of my life was a whole day spent surfing from Cherbourg to the Solent with my brother in a SW8. We'd deliberately sailed to Cherbourg on the Friday night to catch the forecasted downwind gale back and boy were we glad we did.

Another fantastic big boat sail that sticks in my memory was Largs to Holy Loch in a SW9. Decent surfing waves. 2 sailors and two non-sailor girlfriends who loved it as much as us.

They were both thrilling but technically undemanding sails. However a bit of gear failure or a dislocated shoulder and we'd have been subjects of threads like these. If we'd suffered gear failure in a F5 or fallen over on a pontoon in a flat calm that would have been ok in the view of the world at large.

These guys all went of their own free will, they'd all seen the same forecast. If I meet of of them I'll buy them a pint and be grateful for the chance to listen to the tale of their adventure.

Just realized I've actually been the subject of a "shouldn't go sailing if it's windy thread": http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219577
 
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Mark-1 said:
+1.

........

These guys all went of their own free will, they'd all seen the same forecast. .......[/url]
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And from what has been written on one of the threads by someone who was actually on board, the crew didn't have the experience to understand the implications of the forecast, they relied upon the skippers assertion (and "experience") that the weather would happen "later" when they should be safely tied up, were seriously sea sick, and certainly for the crew poster, didn't agree with the skippers decision and tried to raise his concerns.

This wasn't a bunch of guys on a jolly like your sailing sounds like- it was a paid for course to learn more about sailing - not one of them signed up for a F8+ helter skelter thrill seekers ride.

So to try and imply that it was the crews fault is IMHO a bit rich.
 
Comrade Red said:
And from what has been written on one of the threads by someone who was actually on board, the crew didn't have the experience to understand the implications of the forecast, they relied upon the skippers assertion (and "experience") that the weather would happen "later" when they should be safely tied up, were seriously sea sick, and certainly for the crew poster, didn't agree with the skippers decision and tried to raise his concerns.

This wasn't a bunch of guys on a jolly like your sailing sounds like- it was a paid for course to learn more about sailing - not one of them signed up for a F8+ helter skelter thrill seekers ride.

So to try and imply that it was the crews fault is IMHO a bit rich.
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Quite.
As stated, these guys weren't exactly the most experienced lot.
Add some peer pressure and possibly 'you do realise that your trip is non-refundable' and you're there.
Takes lots of character to walk away then.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Always amuses me how judgemental posters are when something like this happens. Never before realised how many sailing gods there are out there. But I wonder if the skipper being pilloried here ever joined in previous post accident feeding frenzies on YBW. For that matter, I wonder how many of the self righteous on here will end up also in the newspaper reports.

As far as I'm concerned, there but for the grace of God ........................
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Hmmm, remind me not to sail with you if I'm ever tempted! If you're prepared to set off in a Forecast 10 with a novice crew towards a funnel neck with no all weather ports of refuge then you're clearly nuts.

Yep we've all been caught out, and sh!t does happen but probabilities of sh!t happening can vary from almost 0 to almost 1.

Why on earth do you think weather is such a big part of the YM syllabus?
 
jimi said:
Hmmm, remind me not to sail with you if I'm ever tempted! If you're prepared to set off in a Forecast 10 with a novice crew towards a funnel neck with no all weather ports of refuge then you're clearly nuts.

Yep we've all been caught out, and sh!t does happen but probabilities of sh!t happening can vary from almost 0 to almost 1.

Why on earth do you think weather is such a big part of the YM syllabus?
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They were not novice crew. They were all qualified.
 
michaelchapman said:
They were not novice crew. They were all qualified.
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Day skipper & competent crew only - those are "starter tickets" that say they can help sail a yacht with an experienced skipper. Even Day Skipper doesn't include night passage planning, the clue is in the name. :rolleyes:

The only person qualified for overnight passages was the skipper, the rest were inexperienced & relative novices. Sure they had sailed before, but they were not experienced or qualified by any definition I would recognise.
 
fireball said:
Yes - it can ... it doesn't have to - I "suffer" but carry on regardless...
If these were "experienced" DS + crew they should know if they suffer and that should be taken into account when considering a passage.
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These people had been in a short chop for 20 hours. Even the strongest stomach can suffer.
One skipper was OK until we had to clear a diesel filter, as soon as he smelt hot diesel, it was as though someone had drugged him and he just flopped.
A DS tends not to push themselves in terms of sea conditions.
 
fireball said:
As I said in the other thread - Dayskipper isn't a QUALIFICATION it is a Certificate of Competence - nitpicking it maybe - but gaining that cert of competence is down to the individual instructor.

Anyway - good on the DS who felt he didn't have the experience to helm - it could've been so easy to give in and take the helm anyway.
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The Day Skipper is not a certificate of Competence, Its a course completion certificate. Although as instructors we will not award the certificate if the holder is not able to skipper a small yacht in sheltered waters in light weather conditions.
 
madmitch said:
i think some perspective is required, i have done 3000 miles with this company, they are not perfect but who is if we really wan't to pick fault, in my experiance they were the best sailing school i have come across, Manning in particular was one of the most concientious and safety aware priniples i have met thus far. Maybe we should be looking at the rigour of the rya qualification, i have seen incompetance from ymi's that would have had me dismiss people in my factory on hse grounds alone....and from people with a "gold standard qualification" the skippers get what? £100 a day, would you take a risk for £100- less than the cost of filling up the car!? I would hate to see one of the better companies hauled over the coals for something that may well not their fault, lets wait and get some facts first!

Chris,

Derbyshire
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Try £85 per day!
 
RobbieW said:
Later is one of those pro-words in a forecast with well defined meanings:
Imminent; 0-6 hrs
Soon; 6 - 12 hrs
Later; 12 - 24 hrs

The skipper is described as a Yachtmaster Instructor so little excuse for not knowing this.
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yes, and those definitions are from the time of issue (which is also in the forecast) NOT the time of broadcast which happens some time later.
 
Mark-1 said:
All far better qualified than me.
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There's certification, qualification and experience ...

Whilst certification and qualification may indicate some level of experience, only experience will give you the skills required ... unfortunately there are a few who seem to forget that ..
 
Tweeting that you are going to have a thrilling ride sailing into a force ten with the chance to fly a try sail looks like criminal irresponsibility to me....& there was me thinking that this hot liquid stuff was a boring thread about gear box oil fluid :D Nearly missed it!
 
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