rib
Well-Known Member
but with a car one has proberly been in one before and has an idea what is good and what is bad.someone stepping on a boat for the first time has no such idea.
Hot Liquid: the response
- Thread starter Koeketiene
- Start date
Judders
Well-Known Member
My first trip on a propper yacht was at the age of 24 with one of the most respected sea schools in the world. We were on a late 1960's ocean racer with a crew of fourteen. Some complete novices like myself but plenty of experienced and highly qualified instructors. We set of in a F9 in the Solent, wind over tide, and beat all the way to Cowes. I had a whale of a time and was hooked instantly, yet looking back now, I think they were mad to take us out. At the time I trusted to there experience and relied on the fact that they wouldn't let us do it if it was dangerous. Happilly, that was the last time I went out in a nine.
Judders
Well-Known Member
No you don't, you're right. Sailing, like life, is a calculated risk. The difference with OPYC is that nobody is motivated by profit or paying the mortgage.
rib
Well-Known Member
i thought you didnt belive in paying for sai;ling
fireball
Well-Known Member
Yer - that's the difficult bit ... because you may judge it to be dangerous, but it isn't ...
If you're looking to join the OPYC then it's probably advisable to get to know your potential crew mates first - before setting out ... or have recommendations from a trusted friend ... slightly round the other way, but that's what I did when I took another unknown to me forum member to Cherbourg - I enquired with a few other members to see if anyone knew him - got a suitable response back, enquired with him about his experience and welcomed him aboard.
Galadriel had us all aboard for a get together to see if we'd get on and a short "test sail" - it enabled him to decide whether he could trust the crew or not ... mind u I think I worried him slightly when he asked what course I was steering and I replied with "I'm just heading for that cloud" .. !!
fireball
Well-Known Member
I've been in a car with someone who drove the radio and played the car ... we didn't have an accident but I was wary from then ...
Boomshanka
Well-Known Member
And if you pay for a seat in a black cab (rather than just hitch a lift), you are somewhat comforted by having a licenced driver who has 'the knowledge', a cab that continues to pass mechanical scrutiny, insurance, experience, etc... this will affect your 'framing' in making a risk analysis of the trip.
Judders
Well-Known Member
My issue is with the buying your way onto racing boats or paying good money to do some other buggers delivery trip for them.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Exactly ... so if you book a mile builder through a sailing school you expect to be safe. Not saying that there will be no accidents - as there is always the unforeseen, but you would expect not to worry and your skipper to instil confidence.
rib
Well-Known Member
i suppose we could get heavy weather training in august in the solent
Judders
Well-Known Member
Certainly could have done the last three or four years...
fireball
Well-Known Member
You can have heavy weather training whenever wherever you like ... I wouldn't want that restricted by legislation or rules from the RYA. However, pretty much everyone on here agrees that the decision to sail was foolhardy at best - coupled with the relatively low experience levels of the crew.
As previously said - I hazard a guess that regardless of the "advisableness" of setting out, this trip would've been achievable without incident with a suitable level of crew onboard - the boat was able to make it - it was the crew that "broke" ... and that's a foreseeable issue.
I've been out plenty of times in dubious weather - but only with crew that I know and trust to be able to cope with the vessel and situation. I've turned down crew that would've been a liability in those conditions, but fine in lesser strengths - that is part of what being a skipper is about - ensuring you have the RIGHT RESOURCES aboard.
rib
Well-Known Member
i agree but like so many on here your taking me out context.i was having a part debate with judders about paying for sailing and not the thread par say.and im playing d/a at the moment as we had all ready hung the guy yesterday with out all the facts
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
The Cowes Week Gale is usually Wednesday or Thursday.
rib
Well-Known Member
cowes which side of the river is that held then
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Apropos OPYC and whether you're with a good driver - you have no way of knowing, but pick someone where the first trip is a day's jaunt around the cans, so you can get off and walk away at that evening, and never come back if you don't want to.
Don't join an unknown boat with an unknown skipper and crew if it's a multi-day voyage, with no opportunity to get off and keep your feet dry.
Don't join an unknown boat with an unknown skipper and crew if it's a multi-day voyage, with no opportunity to get off and keep your feet dry.
rib
Well-Known Member
do you use the wash from the ferries for your sea state
fireball
Well-Known Member
All my heavy weather experience has been done on a casual basis - either on my own boat or on a friends.
Yes we did hang the skipper out to dry yesterday ... I've not seen anything that would change my view on what he did either - if anything the contributions from the news sources, the company, the crew and the RNLI have reinforced my view that the skipper was reckless and seriously endangered his crew.
Yes we did hang the skipper out to dry yesterday ... I've not seen anything that would change my view on what he did either - if anything the contributions from the news sources, the company, the crew and the RNLI have reinforced my view that the skipper was reckless and seriously endangered his crew.
rib
Well-Known Member
playing d/a here just in case its not reconised,news source...beef the story up a bit may be...the company..well as soonas the md did say something it changed the forum a bit...the crew.......one mans big sea is anothers fun.depends on what has been experianced befor.rnli media officers have been known to beef things up a bit too
nickd
Well-Known Member
This is bad on so many levels, its difficult to know here to start.
Speaking as a dinghy racer converted to cruising and now a boat owner with a Yachtmaster Coastal, I have done many RYA courses not to collect "badges" but to learn and every time I complete a course the biggest thing I learn is how much more there is to know.
Sailing is all about managing risk, I cannot think why anyone at all would set sail with an imminent F10. I am all for people gaining experience of heavy weather sailing but a forecast F10 in the Channel would seem unnecessary and I have myself set sail in an F8 but under very special circumstances the Instructor owned the boat, was very experienced and I and my three friends had sailed with him before, so I new their capabilities as well as the instructors and he new ours. We were all confident it was not going to get any worse and we had a good safe retreat back into the harbour as and when we wanted, we wanted some heavy weather experience so we went out and sailed and practiced MOB having told CG what we were up to.
I cannot imagine any circumstances which would lead me to set sail on that forecast on that route, no amount of booze, drugs or lack of experience could persuade me to set sail with six inexperienced crew that I did not know (and if you do not know them you must consider them to be inexperienced regardless of what they say).
I cannot fathom the lack of imagination from the Skippers part as to what could go wrong, what if he had been incapacitated?
I also cannot understand how the crew consented, every day that I have been on a boat with a professional skipper, the weather conditions and passage plan has been discussed prior to leaving port. I'm pretty sure I would have got off that boat even if I new the skipper and the crew very well, but I'm also pretty sure I have never sailed with a skipper nor crew where that would have arisen.
Fortunately no real harm as been done, apart from:
Wasting life boat time
Endangering life boat crew
Endangering 6 crew
Possibly putting off some sailors from sailing again
Wasting Air Sea Rescue time
I just hope that and pray that this does not get used to fuel some legislation to mess with us all. Someone quoted I think it was Uffa Fox saying that insurance should be invalidated if you set sail in a forecast F8 - NO. Whose forecast and where? I would reckon that about every other weekend the Met Office was forecasting a possible F8 last year in the Irish Sea, and about 80% of those forecasts were massively exagerated particularly in Cardigan bay where I sail but thats the nearest met forecast.
Ultimately all Skippers, amateur or professional, are responsible for the life and safety of their crew I do not think there is any legislation that will ever be able to prevent genuine accidents or the odd gung ho cowboy getting professional qualifications. It then comes back to the fact that every person must also take some responsibility for their situation and when relying on a professional should satisfy themselves that they are comfortable with said pros abilities.
Rant over
Thanking the starts these are rare events
Speaking as a dinghy racer converted to cruising and now a boat owner with a Yachtmaster Coastal, I have done many RYA courses not to collect "badges" but to learn and every time I complete a course the biggest thing I learn is how much more there is to know.
Sailing is all about managing risk, I cannot think why anyone at all would set sail with an imminent F10. I am all for people gaining experience of heavy weather sailing but a forecast F10 in the Channel would seem unnecessary and I have myself set sail in an F8 but under very special circumstances the Instructor owned the boat, was very experienced and I and my three friends had sailed with him before, so I new their capabilities as well as the instructors and he new ours. We were all confident it was not going to get any worse and we had a good safe retreat back into the harbour as and when we wanted, we wanted some heavy weather experience so we went out and sailed and practiced MOB having told CG what we were up to.
I cannot imagine any circumstances which would lead me to set sail on that forecast on that route, no amount of booze, drugs or lack of experience could persuade me to set sail with six inexperienced crew that I did not know (and if you do not know them you must consider them to be inexperienced regardless of what they say).
I cannot fathom the lack of imagination from the Skippers part as to what could go wrong, what if he had been incapacitated?
I also cannot understand how the crew consented, every day that I have been on a boat with a professional skipper, the weather conditions and passage plan has been discussed prior to leaving port. I'm pretty sure I would have got off that boat even if I new the skipper and the crew very well, but I'm also pretty sure I have never sailed with a skipper nor crew where that would have arisen.
Fortunately no real harm as been done, apart from:
Wasting life boat time
Endangering life boat crew
Endangering 6 crew
Possibly putting off some sailors from sailing again
Wasting Air Sea Rescue time
I just hope that and pray that this does not get used to fuel some legislation to mess with us all. Someone quoted I think it was Uffa Fox saying that insurance should be invalidated if you set sail in a forecast F8 - NO. Whose forecast and where? I would reckon that about every other weekend the Met Office was forecasting a possible F8 last year in the Irish Sea, and about 80% of those forecasts were massively exagerated particularly in Cardigan bay where I sail but thats the nearest met forecast.
Ultimately all Skippers, amateur or professional, are responsible for the life and safety of their crew I do not think there is any legislation that will ever be able to prevent genuine accidents or the odd gung ho cowboy getting professional qualifications. It then comes back to the fact that every person must also take some responsibility for their situation and when relying on a professional should satisfy themselves that they are comfortable with said pros abilities.
Rant over
Thanking the starts these are rare events